Gun Lore

[No_Regerts]

There are some guns that have a mystique about them. Sometimes its totally unreasonable, but sometimes its not. Guns that never fail, guns that point their selves, cartridges that never fail, etc. Some Ive called BS on, but some Ive succumbed to:

1: 45 ACP/1911s. Sure, its only 8 rounds, but it feels great and you can't explain why. That, and would Clint Eastwood look as mean or capable in Gran Torino if he had a Walther PPK instead of a 1911A1?

2: Pre-64 Model 70s. There are many more accurate rifles on average, some that bent gas better, some that are lighter, but none that have the following that a Pre-64 M70 has. I see younger guys with a plastic rifle who wonder what the big deal is about the pre-64. But when you pick one up and close your eyes, you can feel the warmth in the stock like its alive and get a flash of the places its gone and the game its taken...

3: 30-06. Doesn't shoot as flat as some, kicks too hard for many, overkill for most game in the lower 48, underkill for the guys with a bad case of magnumitis, but its never the wrong choice on a hunt.

4: Pump Shotguns. The sound of the pump will scare em away! Not really. But it should have. Ive seen what a 12 gauge will do to a person up close. Devastating.

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[MountainBear]

.30-06? Not perfect? SACRILEGIOUS!

But I agree with the shotgun. Also annoying is the "you don't have to aim". And that people call them "shotties". That makes me cringe.

 

[DB is Here]

Additional Gun Lore:
I'd have to add the .357 magnum in 3 or 4inch. In fact to me the SW 686 plus is the megaton of .357's. Others will say Ruger Security 6 or....Add yours here.

 

[Alexx1401]

1911! Something about it with me. Guess it must go back to that first time when about 5 that I got to shoot one. I grew up shooting many guns but for some reason that one did it for me so much more than any others. I often say I "know" there is far better designs now but just keep carrying the 1911 anyway.
As for the pump, hell yes. Even though the only one I have left is a safe queen that sound of a round going home is very satisfying. Reminds me I really should take mine out to the range again just to clear it's throat

 

[DuneHopper]

Additional Gun Lore:
I'd have to add the .357 magnum in 3 or 4inch. In fact to me the SW 686 plus is the megaton of .357's. Others will say Ruger Security 6 or....Add yours here.

Id second this,

And add the SKS, just one very reliable rifle, and will shoot just about any quality 7.62x39 you put in it.
Id also like to add that Caliber. It not the most level, or have the distance of many similar,
but is one sexxy round that will make swiss cheese outta cinder blocks.

 

[DuneHopper]

1911! Something about it with me. Guess it must go back to that first time when about 5 that I got to shoot one. I grew up shooting many guns but for some reason that one did it for me so much more than any others. I often say I "know" there is far better designs now but just keep carrying the 1911 anyway.
As for the pump, hell yes. Even though the only one I have left is a safe queen that sound of a round going home is very satisfying. Reminds me I really should take mine out to the range again just to clear it's throat

This is a future want. never had one, always wanted one. Stars never lined up.

 

[Alexx1401]

This is a future want. never had one, always wanted one. Stars never lined up.

Which, you mean a 1911? If so these days there is so many to choose from it's hard to pick one. That right there says a lot about the very old design, just how many companies make a version of it. I keep wanting one in 10mm now

 

[DuneHopper]

Which, you mean a 1911? If so these days there is so many to choose from it's hard to pick one. That right there says a lot about the very old design, just how many companies make a version of it. I keep wanting one in 10mm now

Well I always like it when seeing in in movies and news on TV, I like the larger pistols they fit better.
My wives Uncle had a Colt 1911 and I held and shot I think ten years ago and loved it.
One I wish could be found and someone stole, about 5 years ago when her Grandfather passed, he had a Officer take home Luger it had a Nazi symbolism engraved. I only saw it once 20 years ago and when he passed with in days it vanished. Only his kids knew where he kept it. Sorry mind wandered easy to do with firearms.

 

[PNWguy]

I think the lore of the 1911 is the most annoying for me.

I carried one while in the Navy and enjoyed shooting it and going through weapons courses with it. My dad is a former Marine Corps sniper and was on the USMC pistol team and owns a couple of them and hates everything else, except the Ruger Mark II .22.

Yes, 1911s have great triggers and point very naturally...

But when you actually start running the numbers and being totally subjective about them, you have to completely ignore reality and math and physics to think that they are superior.

They are heavy, have horrible capacity, are fragile, and getting a reliable one is the luck of the draw it seems. They are also overpriced with the cheapest POS one's being $500, while the biggest POS striker-fired guns are $150.

And just about ANY $500 striker-fired polymer pistol will be more reliable and lighter, and have more capacity than a $500 1911 and be a better choice for self-defense.

Yes, I know what I just typed is heresy and will elicit a cornucopia of insults, denials, accusations, and people completely ignoring facts.

Hey, I like 1911s and if it were 1940, or 1970, I would have one on my hip. But there are better firearms available today.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Nothing looks quiet like a 1911, its like J.M. Browning not only set out to design a working self loading pistol, he also set out to build something that lookedJust right, fit Just right, and shoots Just right, its like the holy trinity of perfection! It looks like a pistol should!
Mauser 98s, an elegantly simple design solution that became legendary in and of its self, not to mention becoming the most copied design in history! There is just something so darn sexy about that shiny claw extractor, and its the very epitome of the modern bolt action rifle design!
My favorit of all, the Colt Patent 1855 pattern Revolving Rifle! The first sucessful repeater in an era when percussion ignition was state of the art. Samual Colt found that a revolving cylinder of small formed chambers could be installed on a single barrel rifle and with a deceptively simple rotating mechinisism, became a work of mechanical art as well as function. That design became the standard by which all future long arms would be judged, most failing! Just holding one and marveling at its classic lines and feel, its smoothness and natural fit, it becomes a part of the shooter, an intuitive extension of the body! Nothing comes close to equal it in my mind!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

The Hawken Rifle...
I don't have an original but my copy by Doc Brown is very close.
It is well balanced at 10 pounds with a great blend of weight and length.
With a proper.54 caliber load , I can hunt anything you care to name in North America.

The Hawken Rifle has been storied in myth and movie and while not in the hands of every Mountain Man...they were very well thought of during the time period.
Most Hawken rifles were in the .47-.55 caliber range...you do see other calibers however.
They are found in both full and half stock...mostly maple or walnut.
Hawken Rifles are usually found with iron trim...but you can find one with a brass triggerguard at times.
The barrels of Hawken Rifles were made at their shop...but at times Remington and even imported barrels were used.

I'd also say that the classic Mountain Rifle made by Hawken was never a flintlock.
Yes I have seen Hawken rifles with a lock that was converted from flint...but to my eye , none of the rifles that I seen like that , appeared to be in flint originally....
Except one...And that one , I think was originally not made by any Hawken shop employee , but a rifle that was overhauled by the Hawken shop.

Many Hawken Rifles are stamped...some are not.
The Hawken Shop was owned by :
Sam and Jacob Hawken...
William Lakeman...
Tristan Campbell...
William Hawken...
J.P. Gemmer...
All of who worked on and made rifles.
The shop also had various amounts of employees at many different times...so there can be a huge difference in subtle styling of the rifle , engraving , and fit and finish.

So here is my Hawken rifle :

And just what did the majority of rifles that a Mountain Man had looked like :

 

[Alexx1401]

Well I always like it when seeing in in movies and news on TV, I like the larger pistols they fit better.
My wives Uncle had a Colt 1911 and I held and shot I think ten years ago and loved it.
One I wish could be found and someone stole, about 5 years ago when her Grandfather passed, he had a Officer take home Luger it had a Nazi symbolism engraved. I only saw it once 20 years ago and when he passed with in days it vanished. Only his kids knew where he kept it. Sorry mind wandered easy to do with firearms.

Damn shame about the Luger. As for the 1911 hell if nothing else rent one some time. I long ago leaned they are not for everyone. Once you get the bug though..............
I have one that belonged to my Father. He took a job doing security for a VERY wealthy guy after retirement. He had not fired a gun since leaving AK decades before. Only owned 2 hand guns, neither of which would work for the new job. Off to range we go. Co worker at new job sent him with a nice striker fired 9mm he was selling at a good price to try. Father could not really hit with it. We tried a few of mine until he shot one of my 1911's. He fired a couple shots, set it down to look at me and point, say "I want one of those". I said Dad they run a lot more that some of these, his response, I don't care, I want that. So out front we go and he picks out a SA "Loaded" 1911 and a Miami Classic shoulder rig. He started carrying all the time. That next year he tells me he got to see night sights first time wanted some. So for Fathers day I sent his 1911 off to Springfield for a set. Put a laser on it too, he loved that pistol. When he moved over sea's to finish his retirement he gave it to me

 

[DuneHopper]

Damn shame about the Luger. As for the 1911 hell if nothing else rent one some time. I long ago leaned they are not for everyone. Once you get the bug though..............
I have one that belonged to my Father. He took a job doing security for a VERY wealthy guy after retirement. He had not fired a gun since leaving AK decades before. Only owned 2 hand guns, neither of which would work for the new job. Off to range we go. Co worker at new job sent him with a nice striker fired 9mm he was selling at a good price to try. Father could not really hit with it. We tried a few of mine until he shot one of my 1911's. He fired a couple shots, set it down to look at me and point, say "I want one of those". I said Dad they run a lot more that some of these, his response, I don't care, I want that. So out front we go and he picks out a SA "Loaded" 1911 and a Miami Classic shoulder rig. He started carrying all the time. That next year he tells me he got to see night sights first time wanted some. So for Fathers day I sent his 1911 off to Springfield for a set. Put a laser on it too, he loved that pistol. When he moved over sea's to finish his retirement he gave it to me

Thats a hell of a story, thanks for sharing.

 

[DuneHopper]

I think the lore of the 1911 is the most annoying for me.

I carried one while in the Navy and enjoyed shooting it and going through weapons courses with it. My dad is a former Marine Corps sniper and was on the USMC pistol team and owns a couple of them and hates everything else, except the Ruger Mark II .22.

Yes, 1911s have great triggers and point very naturally...

But when you actually start running the numbers and being totally subjective about them, you have to completely ignore reality and math and physics to think that they are superior.

They are heavy, have horrible capacity, are fragile, and getting a reliable one is the luck of the draw it seems. They are also overpriced with the cheapest POS one's being $500, while the biggest POS striker-fired guns are $150.

And just about ANY $500 striker-fired polymer pistol will be more reliable and lighter, and have more capacity than a $500 1911 and be a better choice for self-defense.

Yes, I know what I just typed is heresy and will elicit a cornucopia of insults, denials, accusations, and people completely ignoring facts.

Hey, I like 1911s and if it were 1940, or 1970, I would have one on my hip. But there are better firearms available today.

LOL I have better, I just want one......liked how it felt.

 

[WillametteWill]

OP...

Amen

 

[Alexx1401]

I think the lore of the 1911 is the most annoying for me.

I carried one while in the Navy and enjoyed shooting it and going through weapons courses with it. My dad is a former Marine Corps sniper and was on the USMC pistol team and owns a couple of them and hates everything else, except the Ruger Mark II .22.

Yes, 1911s have great triggers and point very naturally...

But when you actually start running the numbers and being totally subjective about them, you have to completely ignore reality and math and physics to think that they are superior.

They are heavy, have horrible capacity, are fragile, and getting a reliable one is the luck of the draw it seems. They are also overpriced with the cheapest POS one's being $500, while the biggest POS striker-fired guns are $150.

And just about ANY $500 striker-fired polymer pistol will be more reliable and lighter, and have more capacity than a $500 1911 and be a better choice for self-defense.

Yes, I know what I just typed is heresy and will elicit a cornucopia of insults, denials, accusations, and people completely ignoring facts.

Hey, I like 1911s and if it were 1940, or 1970, I would have one on my hip. But there are better firearms available today.

Yep, I have said many times I "know" there are far better designs now. If some day they make a Phaser we can carry I will still be caring one on my 1911's though. Some times not really even sure why. Unlike many 1911 fan boys though I openly admit the gun is not the best thing there is out there by a long shot. When some ask "so why do you carry it then" I just shrug and say I love it.

 

[Ura-Ki]

Yep, I have said many times I "know" there are far better designs now. If some day they make a Phaser we can carry I will still be caring one on my 1911's though. Some times not really even sure why. Unlike many 1911 fan boys though I openly admit the gun is not the best thing there is out there by a long shot. When some ask "so why do you carry it then" I just shrug and say I love it.

Totally agreed here!
For most of the last 100+ years, there were very few options in a auto loading pistol that was both reliable and durable! When I was first issued a Beretta M-9, I thought the world had gone mad, no way said me! I was quite surprised to find that it not only shot quite well, was accurate, and durable, but it also looked right, fit right, and had a pretty decent trigger despite being double action! While it didn't "Change my religion" it proved that modern designs and manufacturing could produce something that was every bit the equal to the much beloved 1911! I am quite happy with ether a 92 or any varient of the 1911 I own, and would be totally fine relying on ether design for personal carry, i do both, but still prefer my "First Love" a very sweet 2011 series double stack 1911, proving the naysayers of the 1911 totally wrong and the arguement null and void!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

"Best" and "better" are very subjective terms.

For me my Colt Series '70 in .45 is the best.
As it is the pistol that I shoot the best with and am very comfortable carrying it as well.
But those same features that make the 1911 best for me...may make it the worst for someone else.
Andy
Edit to add :
The same can be said for any gun.
The rifle I shoot the best is my Hawken Rifle...but many folks would say that it is the worst possible choice for hunting or shooting....And I would agree , it is the worst possible choice for them.

 

[Boboclown]

I heard you can drag an AK through mud, shoot little American round in it, then shoot big scary nuclear 7.62x39 through it.

 

[cigars]

Yes, I know what I just typed is heresy Yes, it is.

Hey, I like 1911s and if it were 1940, or 1970, I would have one on my hip. But there are better firearms available today. No, there are not.