Gun Counter Experts

[Skier]

"Rise relative to what?" is the question. Relative to the level ground, yes a bullet from a normally sighted rifle will rise. Relative to the line of the bore it will always fall.

Agreed, and that's why I said "from a certain point of view." (which, by the way, was a subtle Obi-Wan Kenobi reference, hehe). Just pointing out that "bullets rise when they come out of the barrel," doesn't quite fall in the implied category of "only an idiot 'expert' would say that." It's a true statement, from a certain, and reasonable, point of view. :-D

BTW, the numbers I used in my examples above were off the top of my head, and a little off, but here's a more accurate set of numbers representing bullet path...

Given my 16" barrel AR, 1:9 twist, 62gr M855, at a velocity of 3100ft/sec, a ballistic coefficient of 0.304, with the center of my scope being 2.68" above the bore, zero'd at 200 yards, no wind, on level ground, with all the targets lined up and level at the distances below, I've listed the bullet height above (+) or below (-) bullseye vertically.

Yards to Target / bullet high or low
1 yard / -2.6" (low)
50 yards / -0.4" (low)
61 yards / 0.0" (dead on bullseye, vertically)
75 yards / +0.4" (high)
100 yards / +0.9" (high)
113 yards / +1.1" (high)
133 yards / +1.2" (high, rough at the apex)
150 yards / +1.1" (high)
175 yards / +0.7" (high)
200 yards / 0.0" (dead on bullseye, vertically)
300 yards / -6.4" (low)
400 yards / 19.6" (low)
500 yards / 41.7" (low)
600 yards / 74.7" (low)

Here's a graph showing a side view (profile) of the bullet trajectory using the data above at between 1 and 300 yards.



Using the view between 0 and 300 yards helps accentuate the fact that the bullet, relative to ground/target, does, in fact, rise after it leaving the barrel.

Showing it out to 600 yards still shows the bullet rise (though not quite as well), but probably shows a better representation of the overall flatness over the first 2 hundred yards of the trajectory.



Note: Calculations performed using the Android app "Strelok Pro," and graph created in MS Excel.

-Skier

 

[Skier]

As an amusing side note, using the last graph above, it is easy to see why I didn't get a single hit on a target when I was shooting at a target that I thought was about 300 yards away, when it was actually 525 yards away. (I was hitting about 3 feet low, and didn't realize it. LOL)

 

[No_Regerts]

I don't believe this to be an entirely inaccurate statement, from a certain point of view... If a barrel is level, of course, the bullet will only drop, due to gravity, but when target shooting for example, if you've sighted an AR to say 100 yards, then with the scope level, the barrel is aimed slightly up, so the bullet would, over that 100 yards, rise by the same amount as the height of the center of your scope over the center of your bore (~1.5 - 2 inches). Likewise, if you had another target sitting at 200 yards directly behind the 100 yard target and at the same height as the 100 yard target, the bullet would hit a couple inches high as it reached the apex of its flight, and if you had yet another target at ~300 yards at the same physical height, it would be back on target again, as it continued to fall after the apex. Those distances aren't perfectly exact, but close enough to make the point. Finaly, to drive it home a little further, it should be obvious that if you stuck a target directly in front of the barrel so the bullseye was lined up dead center on the bullseye, you'd hit the target low by the distance from center of scope to center of bore, so the general bullet path would be something like (using round numbers) 2" low at point blank, an inch low at 50 yards, on target at 100 yards, a few inches high at its apex of roughly 200 yards, then back on target at 300 yards, probably 10+ inches low at 400 yards, as gravity continues to accelerate it downward, then something like 60+ inches low at 500 yards... So given a standard target scenario on level ground, I'd have to agree that the bullet often would rise after leaving the barrel. Is that not how others understand it as well?

I consider "rising" to be a positive change in angle from the direction of departure.

 

[Skier]

Also a reasonable interpretation, from that point of view.

 

[EPS]

Asking if I can shoot a brand new Sig M400 at their 25 yard range (They have weird rules).

Me: "Can I shoot this on the 25 yard range?"
Idiot: "How much do you want for it?"
Me: "For what?"
Idiot: "For the Sig."
Me: "I just bought it."
Idiot: "But if you were going to sell it, how much would you want for it?"
Me: "Why would I want to sell a gun that I just bought? You're not going to offer me over retail for it, are you?"
Idiot: "Well, but how much would you take?"
Me: "Holy $#!+ I don't want to sell the gun. I want to know if I can shoot it here."
Idiot: "~..." <weird confused look>
Me: "If I brought this gun to the 25 yard range today to shoot at some targets, would I be allowed?"
Idiot: "Oh, no, they're not allowed on the 25 yard range."
Me: "Goodbye." <immediate exit before the stupid gets so deep we all drown in it>

Now that's funny LMAO

 

[EPS]

Not from any one at a gun store but you guys left out the media 's favorite one THE GLOCK POLYMER PISTOL WAS MADE TO GET PAST METAL DETECTERS SO YOU CAN TAKE IT ON A AIRPLANE LOL

 

[cigars]

Agreed, and that's why I said "from a certain point of view." (which, by the way, was a subtle Obi-Wan Kenobi reference, hehe). Just pointing out that "bullets rise when they come out of the barrel," doesn't quite fall in the implied category of "only an idiot 'expert' would say that." It's a true statement, from a certain, and reasonable, point of view. :-D

BTW, the numbers I used in my examples above were off the top of my head, and a little off, but here's a more accurate set of numbers representing bullet path...

Given my 16" barrel AR, 1:9 twist, 62gr M855, at a velocity of 3100ft/sec, a ballistic coefficient of 0.304, with the center of my scope being 2.68" above the bore, zero'd at 200 yards, no wind, on level ground, with all the targets lined up and level at the distances below, I've listed the bullet height above (+) or below (-) bullseye vertically.

Yards to Target / bullet high or low
1 yard / -2.6" (low)
50 yards / -0.4" (low)
61 yards / 0.0" (dead on bullseye, vertically)
75 yards / +0.4" (high)
100 yards / +0.9" (high)
113 yards / +1.1" (high)
133 yards / +1.2" (high, rough at the apex)
150 yards / +1.1" (high)
175 yards / +0.7" (high)
200 yards / 0.0" (dead on bullseye, vertically)
300 yards / -6.4" (low)
400 yards / 19.6" (low)
500 yards / 41.7" (low)
600 yards / 74.7" (low)

Here's a graph showing a side view (profile) of the bullet trajectory using the data above at between 1 and 300 yards.

View attachment 359151

Using the view between 0 and 300 yards helps accentuate the fact that the bullet, relative to ground/target, does, in fact, rise after it leaving the barrel.

Showing it out to 600 yards still shows the bullet rise (though not quite as well), but probably shows a better representation of the overall flatness over the first 2 hundred yards of the trajectory.

View attachment 359155

Note: Calculations performed using the Android app "Strelok Pro," and graph created in MS Excel.

-Skier

That's why God invented Kentucky windage dontcha know?

 

[Skier]

That's why God invented Kentucky windage dontcha know?

Along with Arkansas Elevation? ;-)

 

[cigars]

Along with Arkansas Elevation? ;-)

Same difference if you just tilt your head to one side as yer looking thru the rear sight....

 

[nehalemguy]

Agreed, and that's why I said "from a certain point of view." (which, by the way, was a subtle Obi-Wan Kenobi reference, hehe). Just pointing out that "bullets rise when they come out of the barrel," doesn't quite fall in the implied category of "only an idiot 'expert' would say that." It's a true statement, from a certain, and reasonable, point of view. :-D

BTW, the numbers I used in my examples above were off the top of my head, and a little off, but here's a more accurate set of numbers representing bullet path...

Given my 16" barrel AR, 1:9 twist, 62gr M855, at a velocity of 3100ft/sec, a ballistic coefficient of 0.304, with the center of my scope being 2.68" above the bore, zero'd at 200 yards, no wind, on level ground, with all the targets lined up and level at the distances below, I've listed the bullet height above (+) or below (-) bullseye vertically.

Yards to Target / bullet high or low
1 yard / -2.6" (low)
50 yards / -0.4" (low)
61 yards / 0.0" (dead on bullseye, vertically)
75 yards / +0.4" (high)
100 yards / +0.9" (high)
113 yards / +1.1" (high)
133 yards / +1.2" (high, rough at the apex)
150 yards / +1.1" (high)
175 yards / +0.7" (high)
200 yards / 0.0" (dead on bullseye, vertically)
300 yards / -6.4" (low)
400 yards / 19.6" (low)
500 yards / 41.7" (low)
600 yards / 74.7" (low)

Here's a graph showing a side view (profile) of the bullet trajectory using the data above at between 1 and 300 yards.

View attachment 359151

Using the view between 0 and 300 yards helps accentuate the fact that the bullet, relative to ground/target, does, in fact, rise after it leaving the barrel.

Showing it out to 600 yards still shows the bullet rise (though not quite as well), but probably shows a better representation of the overall flatness over the first 2 hundred yards of the trajectory.

View attachment 359155

Note: Calculations performed using the Android app "Strelok Pro," and graph created in MS Excel.

-Skier

Your graph correctly shows bullet path relative to line of sight, which many people mistake for line of bore. (I realize that you understand this btw, not trying to correct you).

V gv

 

[Member 5605]

Same difference if you just tilt your head to one side as yer looking thru the rear sight....

No that's for the cross eyed folk

 

[Sgt Nambu]

That's James. He's always sweet to my puppy when I come in, and gives her backup treats because he thinks she's so pretty. James is good people.

View attachment 359129

Great dog, OQ! She's beautiful! What's her name?

 

[Quartermaster]

Great dog, OQ! She's beautiful! What's her name?

Astrid.

 

[Sgt Nambu]

Size doesn't matter!

 

[Sgt Nambu]

You mean to tell me that them guys at the Gun Room were lying about glocks being made from the same material as tupperware?

NO THATS TRUE!!!

 

[Misteramax]

"A .22lr will not kill a person..."
"You need at least a .45 for a defense pistol..."

This is one of my favorites. Along with 38 spl getting the same lore. Chances are these same people will tell me how the 10mm is just as capable as my 44 mag out of a 7inch Redhawk.

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Astrid.

View attachment 359310

She looks a lot like my Boris. He's a lab/mastiff cross with the looks of a lab but the size of a mastiff (115 lbs). Here's a painting I did of him:

 

[Vendor Hidden]

Size doesn't matter!

I've never heard that from a gun counter expert, but I've said it to my wife once or twice.

 

[Quartermaster]

She looks a lot like my Boris. He's a lab/mastiff cross with the looks of a lab but the size of a mastiff (115 lbs). Here's a painting I did of him:
View attachment 359319

Funny enough, Astrid's from Spokane.

 

[DuneHopper]

My favorite is a 22lr is Less lethal they any other round. I can actually recalling several times people telling me 22lr' are safe as well. . ( implying death is not possible)