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Original <broken link removed> :

Gun ban in time for Folklife Festival?

By Emily Heffter
Seattle Times staff reporter

After a shooting at last year's Northwest Folklife Festival left three people injured, Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels vowed to outlaw guns in city buildings, parks and Seattle Center.

The proposal has languished for almost a year, with the state Attorney General's Office saying the mayor lacks the authority to prohibit guns on city property, a Second Amendment group threatening to sue and questions continuing as to what the policy would really accomplish.

With another Northwest Folklife approaching on Memorial Day weekend, a spokesman for Nickels said the mayor is moving ahead with an executive order this spring and is prepared to defend it in court.

Even if the order is not in place, the May 22-25 festival will be gun-free through the city's lease with festival organizers. Signs posted at the Seattle Center event will remind people not to bring guns, and security will be trained to take firearms away or ask people to leave, says Alex Fryer, a Nickels spokesman.

The new city order would apply even to people who have a state permit allowing them to carry a concealed weapon. Without a permit, it's already illegal in Washington to carry a concealed weapon in public.

Fryer said the city's parks are already safe, but he pointed out that the shooter at last year's Folklife Festival had a permit to carry his weapon.

"We believe that our parks and community centers and open spaces are safer without guns," Fryer said.

The new rule wouldn't have any criminal penalties. People caught with a weapon would be asked to surrender the weapon or leave city property. If they refuse, they could be cited for trespassing, Fryer said.

Alan Gottlieb, the founder of the Bellevue-based Second Amendment Foundation, said the new rule won't make parks any safer.

"Criminals who don't abide by the law to begin with aren't going to follow this law either," he said.

His organization plans to sue the city whenever the mayor issues his order. The group contends only the state has the authority to limit gun possession.

"This is really stupid, and it shows the fact that the mayor doesn't care about wasting taxpayer dollars to push his own agenda," Gottlieb said.

Fryer said the cost of a lawsuit would be worth it if the new policy saves even one life.

Washington state law says cities can't restrict firearms beyond state law. But Nickels says a 2006 state Supreme Court ruling — involving an event in Sequim which that city wanted to declare gun-free — clears the way for Seattle to restrict firearms on its own property.

Fryer said a number of cities around the state have banned firearms on some property.

Seattle City Council President Richard Conlin said the council is generally supportive of the proposal. "It seems clear to me that we should have the ability to regulate these weapons on our own property," he said.

Meanwhile, the city is training Folklife security workers in its new policy, and a spokeswoman for the festival said this year's will be "the safest ever."
 
These two parts caught my eye:

Signs posted at the Seattle Center event will remind people not to bring guns, and security will be trained to take firearms away or ask people to leave, says Alex Fryer, a Nickels spokesman.

How do they intend to do this?

Fryer said the cost of a lawsuit would be worth it if the new policy saves even one life.

This from a City that's looking at significant budget cuts. What would be a better investment? Spending money on a lawsuit (that they'll probably lose) or spending money to put more cops on the street (either new positions or through overtime)?
 
This from a City that's looking at significant budget cuts. What would be a better investment? Spending money on a lawsuit (that they'll probably lose) or spending money to put more cops on the street (either new positions or through overtime)?

Logic don't enter into it... they've got a "cause"...
 
If you make the parks a gun free zone, than all the bad guys will know that and take advantage of the unarmed park lovers......Instead of gun free zone signs, why not signs that say, unarmed citizens, criminals welcome...... :s0114:
 
This quote REALLY got in my head:

Seattle City Council President Richard Conlin said the council is generally supportive of the proposal. "It seems clear to me that we should have the ability to regulate these weapons on our own property," he said.

The politicians actually think it's THEIR property to with as they like. They also think they have the right to waste our tax money in the middle of a budget deficit to defend agaisnt a law suit they can't win - all for the purpose of making political hay with liberal voters.

Their hubris arrogance are seemingly limitless!
 
This quote REALLY got in my head:



The politicians actually think it's THEIR property to with as they like. They also think they have the right to waste our tax money in the middle of a budget deficit to defend agaisnt a law suit they can't win - all for the purpose of making political hay with liberal voters.

Their hubris arrogance are seemingly limitless!

I'm confused... How do the politicians own the property? Didn't the taxpayer pay for that city park... and the blood sucking ticks think they own it!
 
So we all get Washingon CPL's (Is that what they're called?) and Conceal Carry during the festival. Put them in bulky holsters and print like a newspaper.

May as well make them earn their paychecks... :)
 
Sounds like an overreaction waiting to happen; I cannot imagine security personnel not getting excited while dealing with an individual with a gun.

Politicians seem to overlook the possibility of causing harm by not allowing citizens to defend themselves. One life saved may be ten lives lost.
 
They also think they have the right to waste our tax money in the middle of a budget deficit to defend agaisnt a law suit they can't win - all for the purpose of making political hay with liberal voters.

Win or lose, they still win on this one. Either they win and set case law in favor of their regulations or they lose and "they fought the good fight" in the eyes of their constituents.

Northwest Folklife Festival Now this sounds like a great time! A modern, big city version of the Oregon 'Country Fair' I presume?

Bingo - but with street gangs & 35% less patchouli oil :s0114:
 
Yah...it is like a big urban fair but to compare it to your's or any county fair? There is many more nut cases, freaks and oddities there. They all want to hug like a bunch of flower children. But if you can put up with the sights. There is some real good music and some really good food! :s0155:
 
I thought it was already against the law to carry at outdoor music festivals in Washington. :confused:

RCW 70.108.150
Firearms -- Penalty.

It shall be unlawful for any person, except law enforcement officers, to carry, transport or convey, or to have in his possession or under his control any firearm while on the site of an outdoor music festival.

Any person violating the provisions of this section shall be guilty of a misdemeanor and upon conviction thereof shall be punished by a fine of not less than one hundred dollars and not more than two hundred dollars or by imprisonment in the county jail for not less than ten days and not more than ninety days or by both such fine and imprisonment.
 
That's a good point on RCW 70.108.150; how come that hasn't been referenced before in relation to the Folk Life shooting and subsequent anti-gun talk? Does Folk Life not count under RCW 70.108.150? What about bumbershoot for that matter?

And has there been word on how they're going to try to enforce this anyway? Are we gearing up for airport-style "take off your shoes and belt and walk through the metal detector" nonsense or is this all just talk?
 
Under RCW 70.108.020, "Outdoor Music Festival" is defined as such:

(1) "Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state.

I guess that one could argue Folklife has a lot of different activities besides music. In addition, many of the Folklife venues are indoors. Bumbershoot might fall within this definition better.
 
Fryer said the cost of a lawsuit would be worth it if the new policy saves even one life.
Honest question, how would one know if this saved any lives?

Seattle City Council President Richard Conlin said the council is generally supportive of the proposal. "It seems clear to me that we should have the ability to regulate these weapons on our own property," he said.
The politicians actually think it's THEIR property to with as they like. They also think they have the right to waste our tax money in the middle of a budget deficit to defend agaisnt a law suit they can't win - all for the purpose of making political hay with liberal voters. Their hubris arrogance are seemingly limitless!
Well said.
 
Under RCW 70.108.020, "Outdoor Music Festival" is defined as such:

"Outdoor music festival" or "music festival" or "festival" means an assembly of persons gathered primarily for outdoor, live or recorded musical entertainment, where the predicted attendance is two thousand persons or more and where the duration of the program is five hours or longer: PROVIDED, That this definition shall not be applied to any regularly established permanent place of worship, stadium, athletic field, arena, auditorium, coliseum, or other similar permanently established places of assembly for assemblies which do not exceed by more than two hundred fifty people the maximum seating capacity of the structure where the assembly is held: PROVIDED, FURTHER, That this definition shall not apply to government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds nor to assemblies required to be licensed under other laws or regulations of the state."

I guess that one could argue Folklife has a lot of different activities besides music. In addition, many of the Folklife venues are indoors. Bumbershoot might fall within this definition better.


A couple other items don't line up for Folk Life or Bumbershoot to be "Outdoor Music Festivals" under that definition. Both have permanently established places of assembly (isn't that all of Seattle Center?) as well as a stadium and several auditoriums. Both would also strike me as government sponsored fairs held on regularly established fairgrounds (again, sounds like Seattle Center).

What I'm now trying to figure out though, is that even if these events don't exactly qualify under the letter of the law, what's really covered by this statute? I guess something like Woodstock? Is anyone aware of court rulings on this question?
 

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