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gun ban for domestic violence

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by Koda, Jun 27, 2016.

  1. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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  2. Dyjital

    Dyjital Albany, Ore Flavorite Member Bronze Supporter

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    It starts with DV misdemeanor then heads to traffic violations, delinquent tax payments, drivers license forfeiture and finally if you are ugly.

    The slop is slick and we are sliding down it rapidly.
     
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  3. Boboclown

    Boboclown North Carolina Well-Known Member

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    I'm against it. I'm sure the government doesn't mind though, they're allowed to commit crimes and still get elected and essentially do whatever they want.
     
  4. mrblond

    mrblond Salem OR Well-Known Member

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    As we have always said, Laws only affect those that abide by them. A wife beater will just use a knife now, or go and get a gun in some back ally way.
     
  5. erudne

    erudne The Pie Matrix PPL Say Sleeping W/Your Rifle Is A bad Thing? Bronze Supporter

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    DV includes yelling at a spouse, no forensic evidence needed, even in divorce court
     
  6. Boboclown

    Boboclown North Carolina Well-Known Member

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  7. The Resister

    The Resister Georgia Member

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    I'll go you one better. In Georgia, in domestic violence misdemeanor cases, the prosecutor IS:

    A) Allowed to lie to the jury
    B) Allowed to introduce hearsay testimony
    C) Allowed to threaten witnesses and even alleged victims
    D) Allowed to bring charges though no police investigation ever took place
    E) Allowed to pursue the charge without any evidence
    F) Allowed to force potential witnesses and alleged victims to lie after being sworn in.

    Adding insult to injury, as erudne states, if you yell at your spouse - or even look at them glaringly, they may say your demeanor scared you and THAT is enough to sustain the charge.

    At the legal / political level, if you disagree with the SCOTUS on this one, you should begin waking up your Congressmen to the realities behind these convictions.

    At the end of the day, however, the Right to keep and bear Arms is an unalienable Right. The word unalienable does have a meaning. It means that the Right is literally above the law. For example an early court ruling in the United States had this to say:

    "The right to discriminate against, implies the right to prohibit. Both rights are based on the unconstitutional ground, that the legislature can control the keeping, bearing, and use of this weapon. But the legislature cannot do indirectly, that which it has no power to do directly. See Thomas v. State, 9 Tex. 324. ...The right of a citizen to bear arms, in the lawful defense of himself or the state, is absolute. He does not derive it from the state government, but directly from the sovereign convention of the people that framed the state government. It is one of the "high powers" delegated directly to the citizen, and "is excepted out of the general powers of government." A law cannot be passed (p.402)to infringe upon or impair it, because it is above the law, and independent of the law-making power." Cockrum v. State, 24 Tex. 394 (1859)
    http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndcourt/state/177st.htm

    Constitutionally speaking, this SCOTUS decision is not worth the paper it's written on in a de jure / lawful, constitutional Republic. So, now is the time to fight back.
     
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  8. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Goes hand-in-glove with the new law in Hawaii authorizing the creation of a list of gun owners--- to be sent to FBI ---so that if the owner is arrested for a crime anywhere in the U.S., FBI notifies the local police to come and clean out their weapons. not convicted, arrested.

    Anymore an arrest is tantamount to a conviction. Why bother with the court fal-de-ral? "Fair trial and then hang" they used to say in the Old West.

    Funny how every 'common sense compromise' just takes more and more of your cake, isn't it?
     
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  9. Martini_Up

    Martini_Up NW USA Well-Known Member

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    going, going, going.....
     
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  10. RB87

    RB87 Oregon Active Member

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    Domestic violence can damn near mean anything anymore. Look up the Deluth model of domestic violence to learn the mantra behind this stuff. For more fun info, look up the history of the VAWA law and its big supporter over the years, Double Barrel Joe Biden.

    In Oregon, if children witness said domestic violence it is a felony charge. Some places in the western world now consider witholding money from a spouse, emotional/spousal abuse and thus "domestic violence". Good luck controlling a spouse who runs up credit card debts or is a drug user/gambler. Cut off the money to yer honey and it just might be domestic abuse.

    On top of this, originally this law was held to apply to not only new convictions but old ones. Namely, it is an ex post facto law. Blatantly unconstitional. But hey, the law is what ever 5 judges say it is now. Precedent only matters if it helps the pro argument.
     
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  11. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I'm mixed there are a lot of stupid people in terrible relationships that have no business being together. And in a lot of cases make accusations just to get back at the other person. The guy usually loses, However there are a lot of guys that are POS's and can't control their substance abuse or their temper. Those people shouldn't have guns.

    But again they will kill by other means. Just use the F-ing laws we have and you would be better off. Most of the people that commit crimes and progress to murder are habitual offenders. Lock them away, throw away the key. And make prison/jail and horrible place that people fear going to again.
     
  12. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    so it sounds like they need to fix the definition and application of current domestic abuse laws befor this new ruling will ever make a difference?
     
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  13. PaulB47

    PaulB47 Hillsboro Well-Known Member

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    The courts are doing what I expect them to do. No surprises there.

    The real question is about what individuals do. Do they accept being disarmed, and made potential victims? Or do they simply do what makes sense to them, to their need for self-preservation?

    The answer to this question is how one can distinguish a slave from a free man.
     
  14. Boboclown

    Boboclown North Carolina Well-Known Member

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    If they change it, they'll make it so anything can get you convicted for it. You know, for the chillun.
     
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  15. Osarion

    Osarion Snohomish County, WA Well-Known Member

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    Supreme Court justice Antonin Scalia in 2008 wrote that the right to bear arms is not unlimited and is subject to reasonable prohibitions and regulations and subsequently federal court rulings have upheld existing gun prohibitions and regulations.[57]

    Nadine Strossen, former president of the American Civil Liberties Union, has stated that the individual rights model must yield to reasonable regulation.[58] Strossen said "it is no more absolute than freedom of speech or any other right in the Constitution. No right is absolute; the government is always allowed to restrict the right if it can satisfy Constitutional strict scrutiny and show the restriction is narrowly tailored to promote a goal of compelling importance."[59]

    In October 2001, the United States Court of Appeals for the Fifth Circuit stated:

    "there are numerous instances of the phrase 'bear arms' being used to describe a civilian's carrying of arms. Early constitutional provisions or declarations of rights in at least some ten different states speak of the right of the 'people' [or 'citizen' or 'citizens'] "to bear arms in defense of themselves [or 'himself'] and the state,' or equivalent words, thus indisputably reflecting that under common usage 'bear arms' was in no sense restricted to bearing arms in military service."[60][61]



    ^ From Wikipedia
    Right to keep and bear arms in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right_to_keep_and_bear_arms_in_the_United_States#Federal_case_commentary)


    Umm unless I'm reading that wrong, that would be the opinion of the appellant's attorney, not the court, and is about the appellant's right to a bowie knife. Again though, refer to justice Scalia's writings on the limitations on the right to bear arms. In a commonlaw system of jurisprudence one court's decision can be voided by higher one, or through a different case.
     
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  16. Osarion

    Osarion Snohomish County, WA Well-Known Member

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    As opposed to the magical and wonderful place (which is somehow supposed to deter crime yet crime still persists) that it is now?

    Are you advocating for prisons to be more like Mexico or China or something?
     
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  17. Sstrand

    Sstrand La Grande OR Well-Known Member

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    Will the last one out please turn off the lights . . .

    Sheldon
     
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  18. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    No I mean they shouldn't have cable, video games, free education, or be able to run their mafias and gangs from behind bars. In some places guard are too afraid to actually enforce anythingg and a lot of times it's the guards that sneak in contraband.
     
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  19. Lance Jacobs

    Lance Jacobs South Willamette Valley Oregon Well-Known Member

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    After the Orlando shooting someone posted a link to Earl Blumenauer's website, and the page where he had a list of all the gun control bills that he was backing. Among the bills listed there was a bill that would enhance Federal law so that any VIOLENT misdemeanor conviction would qualify to put an end to one's right to own firearms.

    So there are already plans to build on this and expand it, to any sort of "violent" crime.

    Strangely enough, though, Blumenauer's website is now currently down, and unavailable. All you get is a message that it is under "maintenance" currently.

    I wonder if the Democratic Party made him take this info down? For it sure outlined in one easy to find place just how severe the plans are in Congress to pass new gun control legislation.

    Do they perhaps want to hide this from the American people until after the election??

    .
     
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  20. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    I have no doubt they want to hide their agenda. There is plenty of evidence all over but yes you have to look around and stay on top of it, something most dont do so yes, they hide it.
     
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