Guilty of possessing muzzle loading bullets in D.C.

[bnsaibum]

Mr. Witaschek was found guilty today of possessing black powder muzzle loading bullets. Apparently the bullets are illegal to possess even thought the required firearm may not be. And yet the media whöre David Gregory gets a pass for a similar crime. I have no words that would make it through the filter here.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news...ck-verdict-mark-witaschek-guil/#ixzz2x6bFEpHI
http://newsbusters.org/blogs/ken-sh...udge-convicts-man-attempting-own-musket-balls

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[Kevinkris]

wow antis will say the 2nd amendment was specifically meant for muzzle loading rifles and this guy gets the shaft for having ammo for it. isnt this exactly the thing they had in mind when they wrote the constitution? it baffles me that the supreme court a few blocks away would stand for this.

 

[Morpheus]

So, apparently this kind of shows that the whole argument of allowing only firearms which were available when the Bill of Rights is not only bogus, but if all we had were muskets they would want those as well.

This really is kind of crazy. Considering at a Federal Level muskets and other black powder arms aren't even considered firearms. The ATF doesn't even require 4473 by a dealer for them.

 

[Kevinkris]

i didnt know it wasnt defined as a firearm. so does that mean i can have a >16" barrel with suppressor and not have to worry about atf paperwork?

 

[taylor]

Where was he arrested? what brought on the case? this is really sloppy journalism.

 

[Sodbuster]

And what do you do if you have a bunch of BB's? Could you be charged with a felony because you have the makings for a shotgun? What if they are made of lead instead of the regular metal? What about the makings for gunpowder (charcoal, salt peter, etc) in misc containers? How about a block of wood? You COULD be planing on making that a gun stock. Sheesh, the list of absurdities goes on and on and on.

 

[Outrider]

Where was he arrested? what brought on the case? this is really sloppy journalism.

The article is part of a series. There is a link in the article that can take you through the history which explains that he was arrested. The nut of it is the guy's place was raided twice because his ex-wife told the police that he had guns. There were two searches. The results of one search were tossed because the police lacked a warrant. -The police were heavy handed in their searches.

The guy does own guns but he keeps them with his sister in VA due to the extreme anti-gun laws that are in place in D.C. After searching the place, they came up with ammo, ammo components, and a black powder firearm. The black powder firearm is legal under district laws and requires no registration.

He was arrested for violating the district's laws pertaining to possession of ammo and ammo components. This included a dud shotgun shell, spent shell casings, and apparently rounds for the black powder firearm. There was some live modern ammo that was ruled as inadmissible since it was found during the search where the police lacked a warrant.

The whole thing is a mess and the guy is appealing the conviction.

 

[Nwcid]

i didnt know it wasnt defined as a firearm. so does that mean i can have a >16" barrel with suppressor and not have to worry about atf paperwork?

Yes with muzzle loading firearms they do not fall under NFA rules since they are not" firearms" (federally). A silencer is its own NFA item so it would still fall under NFA.

 

[BigStick]

I am tired of the SCOTUS making such narrow rulings on all the firearm issues. They need to just come out and tell NY, CA and CT that they are wrong and can't keep doing stuff like this. They are supposed to protect us all, but they only seem worried about protecting their own political balance.

 

[Kevinkris]

Yes with muzzle loading firearms they do not fall under NFA rules since they are not" firearms" (federally). A silencer is its own NFA item so it would still fall under NFA.

well could still be fun lol

 

[Outrider]

I am tired of the SCOTUS making such narrow rulings on all the firearm issues. They need to just come out and tell NY, CA and CT that they are wrong and can't keep doing stuff like this.

Courts cannot issue advisory opinions. Generally speaking, they need a live case or controversy where both sides are fully litigating the issue.

In the past, a party would take into account a previous ruling and stop heading in a direction where the court had already expressed disapproval. Presently, people no longer follow that path on the big issues. Instead they try to achieve the same goal by other means (not previously ruled on) to avoid the effect of the court's earlier ruling. This puts the onus back on the other party to force the issue back to the court.

Look at Chicago's lengthy efforts to avoid allowing citizens to own handguns. Even after the court said the Second Amendment was an individual right and individuals had a right to own handguns, the city set up a licensing scheme that required training and then simultaneously forbade training to satisfy the requirement from being offered within city limits. That required another trip back to court because it was a new issue and the city lost again.

The only way this kind of conduct will stop is when politicians and bureaucrats have to face real consequences for repeatedly trying to evade complying with the ruling of the court.

 

[RVTECH]

You COULD be planing on making that a gun stock. Sheesh, the list of absurdities goes on and on and on.

Yes - at what point does the lead become a 'muzzleloader bullet'? When it is cast to the approximate size of the barrel? What if I found some round stones that could technically fit into the barrel - would they be considered 'muzzleloader bullets' considering there historical accounts of stones being used as projectiles?

 

[taylor]

I think this was an inline black powder rifle and the bullet was one of those plastic/lead/copper deals I forget what there called, Maxi-bullets? or something like that. At this time I think a front stuffing muzzleloader like a Hawken Rifle is still OK as long as its loose ammunition( balls, powder, etc.)

 

[Riot]

Reminds me of this



http://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2010/01/25/shoestring-machine-gun/

 

[taylor]

Registered firearms are legal in D.C., whats the problem with his having firearms in his house? was the police summoned to his house over unregistered firearms?

 

[GrpCapMandrake]

Registered firearms are legal in D.C., whats the problem with his having firearms in his house? was the police summoned to his house over unregistered firearms?

Vindictive ex sent police to his house. See the link.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/20/dc-businessman-trial-one-shotgun-shell-wasnt-given/

 

[BigStick]

Courts cannot issue advisory opinions. Generally speaking, they need a live case or controversy where both sides are fully litigating the issue.

I understand that the court can't just pick something and make rulings, but they can rule more widely on issues that are presented. In several cases recently (most notably Heller and McDonnald) they chose to issue very narrow rulings about specific aspects of the case instead of wide ranging general rulings to spank the governments for misbehaving. They should make the issue clear, and issue painful penalties for infringing on our rights.

 

[JohnnyD]

Sounds like he needs to kick the wife to the curb and get the hell out of that cesspool

 

[Stomper]

I wonder what the penalty is for biting a
Pop-Tart into the shape of a gun while in D.C.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Our nations capitol which should stand for patriotism and freedom.. Turns out to be the most unAmerican place in the United States. Go figure.

Wish that whole half of the country would just break off and sink to the bottom of the ocean..
Without any warning of course.