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guilty by association, sharing tags....

Discussion in 'Northwest Hunting' started by Koda, Sep 13, 2013.

  1. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    I am just curious what the implications are if someone in your hunting party was charged with poaching?

    Specifically, those that carry a rifle with no valid tag to fill others tags in the party. This is a common practice here in Oregon where someone fills a tag then continues to hunt to increase the chances of filling more tags in the party. Its not legal its poaching.

    In one point of view I don't care what others do but I am wondering if I am with a person who gets busted for this are there any implications for myself?
     
  2. USMC1911

    USMC1911 Salem Active Member

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    Pretty sure you don't need a tag to carry a rifle in the woods. Don't tag an animal you did not kill and you should be fine.
     
  3. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    If your not filling someone else's tag or hunting without a valid tag you will be fine from what I have seen. Usually a individual offense.

    I don't know how actual law reads but I have watched it happen and always hear the storys at work. People around here are always doing dumb bubblegum.
     
  4. oknow

    oknow amboy wa. Well-Known Member

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    I think you have to actually shoot game before you are poaching. kind of like those guys that break their fishing line if the fish and game guy shows up, no hook then your not fishing.
     
  5. AMProducts

    AMProducts Maple Valley, WA Jerk, Ammo Manufacturer Silver Supporter

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    I think there's two questions... the ethical and the legal. In general, if you're in a "hunting area" running around with a rifle and don't have a hunting license someone's going to think you're a poacher no matter what. If you have a license, but no tag, but someone in your party has tags, and you shoot something, eh, the tax has been paid. The legal implications can be quite different. Strikes me that if you have a license, and one of your guys is hunting for deer, but you're along to "hunt coyote" or another non-game species that's a different matter when it comes to the fish and game dept.
     
  6. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    The game cops around here are smarter than that.
     
  7. pakrat57

    pakrat57 Reedsport Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    If you're carrying a firearm that is legal to hunt with during deer or elk season then you are required to have some kind of big game tag (at least in OR). It can be a cougar or bear tag, it doesn't have to be a deer/elk tag.
    ODFW regs page 28 under "Hunting Prohibited". The link is a PDF. http://www.dfw.state.or.us/resource...gulations/docs/2013_big_game_regs_001-030.pdf
     
  8. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    I admit it could be difficult to prove. But its not so simple as not participating in tag sharing (or whatever its called) if others in your party are doing it.

    Suppose you partner up with someone in your party and this person drops two anticipating using someone elses tag (even if its not yours). I thought I would re-read the regs to see if there is anything specific on this and there is.

    (I don't know the ORS statute but here is a copy/paste from Oregon's hunting regs):
    and then as packrat57 just pointed out it you must have a valid tag so people continuing to hunt after they fill their tag I could see how you would be "assisting in any violation" if you partnered up with them or maybe even share camp....
     
  9. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    actually reading deeper in the regs you must have a valid deer or elk tag (used or un-used) AND the bear or cougar tag in order to continue hunting or hunt at all only for bear or cougar.
     
  10. DieselScout

    DieselScout S Clackamas County Well-Known Member

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    This is not true,

    From the ODFW website --

    From the ODFW PDF Fast Facts About Firearm Possession --


    The ODFW has legal control of what weapons you hunt with and when you hunt with them, but they cannot control what firearm is legally carried in the woods. Look at it like open carrying you hunting rifle, it's legal to do, so as long as your not hunting you can carry it. Now, how you are going to prove your not hunting is up to you.

    FWIW, I would never share a tag. I want the deer/elk I take home to be my kill and my story. If a member of our group gets an animal early in the hunt, they can still walk the woods, but typically only carry a sidearm. I am not going to ask anyone to hunt for me, so don't ask me to hunt for you. Regardless of the legality, it's just nothing I would be interested in.
     
    M67, unklekippy, nwwoodsman and 3 others like this.
  11. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Just keep in mind what you loose if you get caught Hunting rights, your firearms carried while on the hunt as well as others in camp, And in many cases your vehicle used to get your arse to the hunt. And a big fine based on the States value of the animal you shot. If its a nice trophy Elk expect to pay a LOT.
     
  12. Grunwald

    Grunwald Out of that nut job colony of Seattle, WA Well-Known Member

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    That is just stupid (not you, the law).
    I do not hunt. Have never hunted and have no intention of hunting.
    I have no idea when the hunting seasons are and for what animal.
    So I am supposed to have my 2A suspended at various times of the year and have to read regulations that I could care less about so a game warden leaves me alone?.

    Reading further posts I see that the AG agrees with me.
     
  13. jluck

    jluck Really,Really, Close to Newport Oregon 97365 Voted #1 Member

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    Being in the woods with guns (shooting/ target practice etc) is totally different from hunting. If your wandering around in the timber with a loaded high power rifle dresses in camouflage (minus valid tag) you will end up with a fine at least. If one is up shooting there pistol or even sighting a rifle cops will say very little.
    Really they have seen it all. And why be out hunting without a tag?

    There is a exception for tag sharing and delegating in the tribal community.
     
  14. pakrat57

    pakrat57 Reedsport Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    That's the sticker right there. Pretty hard to convince a game warden you're not hunting when you are packing a hunting rifle and in company of others with valid hunting tags.
     
  15. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    The great thing about America is that you don't need to prove you aren't hunting, they need to prove you are hunting.

    Carrying a gun in the woods is not illegal any time of the year.
     
    nwwoodsman and (deleted member) like this.
  16. RVTECH

    RVTECH LaPine Well-Known Member

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    This is correct and you will never be cited for it. The citation will be issued for hunting without a tag/license. The implication is the kicker here. As jluck posted if you are in the woods with an 'obvious' hunting style rifle, in cammos and wandering around you may very well be cited. The same goes if you are carrying a rifle/shotgun during the off season and walking around you had better at a minimum have a hunting license with you. Now if you are stationary with targets set up, tables etc. there is no implication of hunting and most likely no problem (providing a good backstop and no targets on trees) I have seen this topic beat to death on forums (and around the campfire) and if you are still unsure I'll let you talk to two people I know who have been cited for hunting without a license. This is not a 2A issue - it about what you 'appear' to be doing while carrying the gun.
     
  17. Koda

    Koda Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    correct.

    IMO, given the damage poaching does I don't have any problem with the regulations. My 2A rights are not being infringed on I can still take a rifle with me in the woods during hunting season to target shoot or camping without a tag. Technically, I think you can carry a rimfire rifle with only a hunting license anytime including big game season....?
     
  18. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    That's all fine and well. The fact of the matter is these citations only happen when the "hunter" admits to hunting illegally, which a lot of people will do. If the confession doesn't occur, we're back to burden of proof, plain and simple.

    As far as poaching goes, I don't get what the big deal as long as there is a whole group of people able to slaughter elk and deer apparently for only their antlers and if the animal is respected at all, the backstrap is cut out and the rest is left to rot. Apparently, I am not "native enough" to leave 90% of an animal on the forest floor.

    Since I do not poach, if I were ever "stopped" in the woods I would probably just explain myself and be on my way. If the cop wanted to push the issue, he can cite me all day long, 2A rights do not get suspended because the state passes out hunting licenses and tags, it only begs for a 2A lawsuit.
     
  19. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry, "implication"? That is now a crime? I have scoured the books for "Implied Poaching" and cannot find it anywhere. Once the poacher admits to poaching, he is a poacher, until then, he is a guy in the woods with a gun and that is not illegal. The NRA wins lawsuits like that all the time. Why would the 2A even atter if you could just be swept up for being in the woods with your gun? Absurdity.
     
  20. unklekippy

    unklekippy In The Mountains Near Sprague River Well-Known Member

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    I think folks need to realize that when citing the codes and laws in the hunting regulations, that only applies to those possessing hunting licenses. Those are the rules you are agreeing to in order receive your hunting license and tag. They don't and never will override The Constitution.