Guess who,is coming to dinner lol

[Kevinkris]

well i see this has taken a strange turn. i can also see that my statement was taken as a blanket response to anyone showing up at my door. you would of course has to make a person to person judgement but it would always be wrong to discount the usefulness of everyone who shows up looking for help. another important thing to consider is that most people are good people. sure a crisis can bring out the worst in people but it can also bring out the best in people. the majority of people you will encounter are genuinely just trying to get by and if you foster the good, it will come out even more. although some would be a lost cause, it doesnt mean you should assume everyone will be.

 

[Just Jim]

Sorry Just Jim, I couldn't see where you were going with the "what do they have in common" question, and took my best guess. Will you supply the answer before the air runs out?

They were not self reliant, bad things happen to those who depend on government. Every person must depend on themselves and not expect government to have the answer for them. Now take a breath, you are looking a little blue under your shades

 

[Sam Kinard]

well i see this has taken a strange turn. i can also see that my statement was taken as a blanket response to anyone showing up at my door. you would of course has to make a person to person judgement but it would always be wrong to discount the usefulness of everyone who shows up looking for help. another important thing to consider is that most people are good people. sure a crisis can bring out the worst in people but it can also bring out the best in people. the majority of people you will encounter are genuinely just trying to get by and if you foster the good, it will come out even more. although some would be a lost cause, it doesnt mean you should assume everyone will be.

Did you read the article? It is specifically a letter to those friends that the author properly warned and still spent their time and money on bulls*** while he spent his time getting ready. The author also very clearly states that he would help truly needy people. Those that were warned, laughed at him and then spent their money on crap before they had their children protected are not needy, they are disgusting and immoral. It is still horribly irresponsible to kill your children for liberal ideals. The author gave his friends as much as he could and more. Suggesting that he is a bad person because he tried so hard to help his friends, but stopped short of killing his own family is just plain crazy.

 

[Just Jim]

Anyone thinking that "civility" and "being nice" matter when the chips are down are the same ones that say "it's just too horrible to think about" or "it couldn't happen here".

I don't need anyone showing up armed, we've got that covered. If they show up without food, they will not eat. It is wildly irresponsible to kill your child because of liberal ideals. We are not a collective and those giving what they need to survive away will die.

It's amusing to hear folks say that it simply can't or won't happen here. Tomorrow will not be tempered by your ability or willingness to stomach it. Rome didn't collapse when the people were self-reliant, it collapsed when everyone was completely dependent upon the state. Sound familiar? Mel Tappan may have called it a little early and he may have been on the wrong side of the Cascades, but now that everything is 10x as bad as it was in the '70's we can take that as a sign that a collapse will never happen? What keeps it from happening? A fake dollar and stock market? A wide open border? An obvious desire by our "leaders" to take us down several pegs? What is it about all the signs of the Apocalypse that are coming together that seem to make folks think it won't happen? A lot of us were laughed at when we predicted all of the things the government was doing. You would be laughed out of the room if you told someone 5 years ago that The NSA was actually recording EVERYTHING, but here we are. Imagine how "paranoid" you would be if you told people that our government gives American guns to Mexican drug dealers to kill Americans only to infringe upon our rights. If you told people that the day before Fast & Furious broke, you would be labeled dangerously paranoid, yet again, here we are. What if you told people that the IRS was targeting those of us who didn't subscribe to Socialist control? What if you told people that the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident didn't even happen? Now that the US government acknowledges that it never happened, people STILL refuse to believe it. So, we live in a world where things that "can't happen" have been happening for at least 50 years.

Whether we have an oil crisis that grinds us to a halt, a nuclear war or incident that knocks us back to the stone age, some super virus(there sure are a lot of those popping up out of nowhere. I would suggest that it could be intentional, but I'll just wait awhile for it to be uncovered to avoid the paranoia label.) or our completely fake and horribly immoral financial situation comes finally crashing down, or any other myriad situations, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will happen. I don't know if it will happen tomorrow or in 250 years, but a house of cards in a tornado can't stay up for long.

You make my point about "when" , look how long this has been headed down hill. Yet there is still food in the markets, gas at the pumps and you go through life day in and day out without hoards of criminals trying to kill you for your stuff.

If it's all going to crash then it will be when they have no control and can't stop it. I doubt the big guys are going to crash a system they can use so well to make themselves rich and powerful. If it goes down it will be an event they have no control over like a mad Russian pres nuking every capitol in the west. It just ain't going to happen.

 

[Just Jim]

Did you read the article? It is specifically a letter to those friends that the author properly warned and still spent their time and money on bulls*** while he spent his time getting ready. The author also very clearly states that he would help truly needy people. Those that were warned, laughed at him and then spent their money on crap before they had their children protected are not needy, they are disgusting and immoral. It is still horribly irresponsible to kill your children for liberal ideals. The author gave his friends as much as he could and more. Suggesting that he is a bad person because he tried so hard to help his friends, but stopped short of killing his own family is just plain crazy.

My best friend of many years has no preps yet I would take him in any time he wants. He has worked all his life to be self reliant but the last few years fighting cancer has broke him financialy. I will make my decision on a personal basis.

Who would take me in? I have several friends who have asked me to stay at their homes should it ever get so ugly we would need to band together. With my friends I could go there empty handed and still be accepted. At least as it stands today

 

[pokerace]

send them to a FEMA camp............

 

[The Heretic]

Rome didn't collapse when the people were self-reliant, it collapsed when everyone was completely dependent upon the state. Sound familiar?

Rome didn't collapse overnight either. Nor did it take weeks, or months or even years or decades - it took at least a hundred years by the most conservative estimate, and it was gradual.

There are many theories on why Rome fell, yours would be just one more.

 

[Sam Kinard]

My best friend of many years has no preps yet I would take him in any time he wants. He has worked all his life to be self reliant but the last few years fighting cancer has broke him financialy. I will make my decision on a personal basis.

Who would take me in? I have several friends who have asked me to stay at their homes should it ever get so ugly we would need to band together. With my friends I could go there empty handed and still be accepted. At least as it stands today

I'm not sure I understand your point. I already pointed out where they guy writing the article states clearly that he would help those truly in need, just not those that laughed at him and said they would do nothing, waste their resources, then rely upon him when the time comes. So, your example of the friend with cancer and the friends recognizing what you bring to the table have been covered by the author, then by me. Why present it as an argument? Why present it as though anyone suggested that we all shoot our friends? It is my opinion that the author wrote the letter to try to warn those that go to Hawaii twice a year, but don't have more than 3 days worth of food in their house that when S Hits The F it will be too late to get your priorities straight. That is totally different than telling a cancer patient to take a walk and also quite different than telling someone that brings something to the table to get lost.

 

[Sam Kinard]

Rome didn't collapse overnight either. Nor did it take weeks, or months or even years or decades - it took at least a hundred years by the most conservative estimate, and it was gradual.

There are many theories on why Rome fell, yours would be just one more.

No, it didn't collapse overnight but unfortunately there are a lot of people that need an example to understand why folks prep and Rome is a widely known failure, so I used that one. I guess since we are a little over 100 years into our own forced collapse(just basing it on the founding of the Federal Reserve), we are right on track, then?

With an outlook like the one in your response here, why have you been prepping for over 40 years? Since it can't or won't happen anyway?

 

[Just Jim]

No, it didn't collapse overnight but unfortunately there are a lot of people that need an example to understand why folks prep and Rome is a widely known failure, so I used that one. I guess since we are a little over 100 years into our own forced collapse(just basing it on the founding of the Federal Reserve), we are right on track, then?

With an outlook like the one in your response here, why have you been prepping for over 40 years? Since it can't or won't happen anyway?

I'm not sure I understand your point. I already pointed out where they guy writing the article states clearly that he would help those truly in need, just not those that laughed at him and said they would do nothing, waste their resources, then rely upon him when the time comes. So, your example of the friend with cancer and the friends recognizing what you bring to the table have been covered by the author, then by me. Why present it as an argument? Why present it as though anyone suggested that we all shoot our friends? It is my opinion that the author wrote the letter to try to warn those that go to Hawaii twice a year, but don't have more than 3 days worth of food in their house that when S Hits The F it will be too late to get your priorities straight. That is totally different than telling a cancer patient to take a walk and also quite different than telling someone that brings something to the table to get lost.

Not sure I am arguing anything at all. Just pointing out the way I see things. I never posted to start arguments but to get the view of others should the situation arise. That is the bad part of writing, if you don't write well the reader turns it into what he thinks.

 

[Just Jim]

No, it didn't collapse overnight but unfortunately there are a lot of people that need an example to understand why folks prep and Rome is a widely known failure, so I used that one. I guess since we are a little over 100 years into our own forced collapse(just basing it on the founding of the Federal Reserve), we are right on track, then?

With an outlook like the one in your response here, why have you been prepping for over 40 years? Since it can't or won't happen anyway?

Comes a point where being a survivalist is a lifestyle, not sure when they changed it to being a prepper. It's like any other skill you take on in life as a useful tool. There are many paybacks to the lifestyle but I recon you have to live it to get the full realization to how it's helped through life.

 

[Sam Kinard]

You make my point about "when" , look how long this has been headed down hill. Yet there is still food in the markets, gas at the pumps and you go through life day in and day out without hoards of criminals trying to kill you for your stuff.

If it's all going to crash then it will be when they have no control and can't stop it. I doubt the big guys are going to crash a system they can use so well to make themselves rich and powerful. If it goes down it will be an event they have no control over like a mad Russian pres nuking every capitol in the west. It just ain't going to happen.

There sure is a lot of evidence of population control being on the minds of the "big guys". Did you know that Agenda 21 is a real thing? Acknowledging that we have gone so far downhill that we can't go much further and then saying that there is still food in the markets, therefore it will always be there without hoards of criminals(?) trying to kill you for your stuff is hard to wrap my head around. Are we doing just fine and that is why food will always be in the markets and gas will always be at the pump? Or am I to "look how long this has been headed downhill"? How can we have it both ways?

While it's virtually impossible to guess an actual expiration date, the idea that something at this advanced state of decay can exist another 50 years is laughable. Those of us that got out try to warn those still in the trap and we get used to engaging the Normalcy Bias that hampers 99% of the population. I have been able to get a few people to consider their families safety before considering a cruise to the Bahamas and that has made all of the pushback worth it.

 

[Just Jim]

There sure is a lot of evidence of population control being on the minds of the "big guys". Did you know that Agenda 21 is a real thing? Acknowledging that we have gone so far downhill that we can't go much further and then saying that there is still food in the markets, therefore it will always be there without hoards of criminals(?) trying to kill you for your stuff is hard to wrap my head around. Are we doing just fine and that is why food will always be in the markets and gas will always be at the pump? Or am I to "look how long this has been headed downhill"? How can we have it both ways?

While it's virtually impossible to guess an actual expiration date, the idea that something at this advanced state of decay can exist another 50 years is laughable. Those of us that got out try to warn those still in the trap and we get used to engaging the Normalcy Bias that hampers 99% of the population. I have been able to get a few people to consider their families safety before considering a cruise to the Bahamas and that has made all of the pushback worth it.

I guess anyone with even half a brain would be fearful of the future when our country seems out of control. I remember the 68 riots and Kent State along with a lifetime of disasters. None of which any of us have control over. All you can do is learn what makes a difference in bad times and teach yourself to be a step ahead.

There are a lot of disasters in life that food and Firearms won't help you a bit. I believe it's what is inside a person that gets them through bad times just as much as what you have put back. It's just surviving until the next disaster.

 

[Sam Kinard]

Comes a point where being a survivalist is a lifestyle, not sure when they changed it to being a prepper. It's like any other skill you take on in life as a useful tool. There are many paybacks to the lifestyle but I recon you have to live it to get the full realization to how it's helped through life.

I know what you mean, even if you do keep responding on behalf of The Heretic. Being a survivalist is absolutely a lifestyle. I'm not sure when it changed to "prepper", but that is what the masses seem to identify with. I reckon living it is the only way to appreciate it and that is why my family lives in very rural Klamath County, surrounded by National Forest and almost to the point of complete self-reliance on acreage and a home that we own outright. If you ever want to come over to see how survivalist' do it, let me know. I don't get my stuff from tv or even books. Nice try with the smug stuff, but satellite tv and internet are the final luxury we have with the exception of electricity. It's far more valuable than any other skill you take on in life because it is life.

 

[Sam Kinard]

I guess anyone with even half a brain would be fearful of the future when our country seems out of control. I remember the 68 riots and Kent State along with a lifetime of disasters. None of which any of us have control over. All you can do is learn what makes a difference in bad times and teach yourself to be a step ahead.

There are a lot of disasters in life that food and Firearms won't help you a bit. I believe it's what is inside a person that gets them through bad times just as much as what you have put back. It's just surviving until the next disaster.

While I do get your point, no, there are no disasters in life that food and firearms won't get me out of. All we need to do is close the gates and just live off the fat of the land. I can't agree with you more about being a step ahead and that is why we are hundreds of miles from any city with forests and desert and mountain ranges between us and the cities.

By all means, it is what's inside that gets people through bad times. We went through enough to know that our life, a pure life, is out here in the mountains where it may take an ambulance an hour to get to us, but our chances of needing an ambulance have dropped tenfold.

 

[Just Jim]

I know what you mean, even if you do keep responding on behalf of The Heretic. Being a survivalist is absolutely a lifestyle. I'm not sure when it changed to "prepper", but that is what the masses seem to identify with. I reckon living it is the only way to appreciate it and that is why my family lives in very rural Klamath County, surrounded by National Forest and almost to the point of complete self-reliance on acreage and a home that we own outright. If you ever want to come over to see how survivalist' do it, let me know. I don't get my stuff from tv or even books. Nice try with the smug stuff, but satellite tv and internet are the final luxury we have with the exception of electricity. It's far more valuable than any other skill you take on in life because it is life.

I have been in Klamath county a number of times building roads, nice area. Spent a lifetime all over Oregon building roads, bridges,hospitals, banks, sawmills,airports, pipelines and whatever else they would pay me to do. Hunted and fished a lot to get my outdoors skills up to snuff and along the way raised a family.

I have learned a lot about people in my travels too, enough to be leary of any politicion or liberal. I don't know everything but have managed to stay alive longer than a lot of others. I owe it to God and him giving me enough sense to survive this long.

While I do get your point, no, there are no disasters in life that food and firearms won't get me out of. All we need to do is close the gates and just live off the fat of the land. I can't agree with you more about being a step ahead and that is why we are hundreds of miles from any city with forests and desert and mountain ranges between us and the cities.

By all means, it is what's inside that gets people through bad times. We went through enough to know that our life, a pure life, is out here in the mountains where it may take an ambulance an hour to get to us, but our chances of needing an ambulance have dropped tenfold.

You just haven't had them happen yet My wife of 40+years died of cancer four years ago, food nor guns could not have stopped it. Disasters hit when you least expect it.

 

[The Heretic]

No, it didn't collapse overnight but unfortunately there are a lot of people that need an example to understand why folks prep and Rome is a widely known failure, so I used that one. I guess since we are a little over 100 years into our own forced collapse(just basing it on the founding of the Federal Reserve), we are right on track, then?

With an outlook like the one in your response here, why have you been prepping for over 40 years? Since it can't or won't happen anyway?

I didn't say there weren't things to prep for - I just said I don't buy into the imminent/inevitable global collapse scenarios.

There are short term emergencies such as floods, fires, earthquakes, volcanoes, tsunamis, wind storms, snow/ice storms and yes, we even have hurricanes and tornadoes here (I was here in '62 for the Columbus Day storm - blew over some of our buildings and trees and knocked out power for quite a while - if you look at some of the pics in the Oregon state archive online you will see a pic of some of the trees in our orchard on the family farm).

Then there are things like unemployment and sickness.

I am more likely to die from cancer, stroke, heart disease, Parkinsons, Alzheimers or just plain old age than I am to have to deal with zombie hordes coming to my house.

But at first, I did buy into the whole collapse thing. It has just been in the last 15 years or so I got a bit wiser - generally from experience. Not that I don't think about how my preps could help in that scenario - but to be truthful, I am beyond the age where I could fight off zombies for very long, much less live off the land. If there were a long term collapse, I probably wouldn't survive very long. I've almost been killed a few times already and I have lived 60 years now - if I die next year, then so be it.

 

[wjv]

i really dont get that mentality. what good person or friend for that matter would turn their friends away in a crisis?

Let me give the counter argument that many worry about. . . Especially those who don't live on 30 acres isolated from their neighbors.

1) It comes down to math. In a major SHTF think of this:
- You are a family of 4 with enough food for 1 year. That equals 365*4 = 1,460 person days of food.
- Now 16 of your neighbors demands that you share your food with them? That's 1,460 person days / (16 + 4) = 73 days of food.
- What if 36 people demands that you share your food with them? That's 1,460 person days / (36 + 4) = 36 days of food.
- What if 60 or 90 people demands that you share your food with them?

Note i said "demands" that you share your food with them. Once people know that you have a bunch of extra food, water and such, are they just going to say "OK" if you decline to share? Especially if they see their children starving?

Are you going to say "Yes" to some and "No" to others? Once you share with some, word will get around the entire neighborhood in 15 minutes. And likely the story will be exaggerated by the people leading the mob. "He has a basement and garage full of food and the bastard won't share it with us!"

2) Conversely, if you "live gray", then other won't know to come to your door looking for help.

 

[Doc In UPlace]

..."another important thing to consider is that most people are good people. sure a crisis can bring out the worst in people but it can also bring out the best in people. the majority of people you will encounter are genuinely just trying to get by..."

An admirable positive outlook, possibly one that'll get a lot of well-meaning people dead in the first week or two of a serious collapse.

What they'll be trying to get by is you, and your door, to take what you have to save themselves. And if that means doing anything to save themselves, then the trappings of law and civility will be soon forgotten.

I don't think, under the current setup, the US is likely to have a grand systemic collapse such as we saw in Bosnia; however give it a decade or two and the conditions could be more likely.

Those wishing to learn more of the lessons learned in Bosnia would do well to seek out Selco's SHTF School

No harm in being ready to stay warm, safe and healthy absent a couple of weeks of no stores, power or communications. A good old Mount Rainier blow-up could quickly make that type of a situation a reality for those of us nearby.