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Guess who,is coming to dinner lol

Discussion in 'Preparedness & Survival' started by Just Jim, Oct 24, 2014.

  1. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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  2. Kevinkris

    Kevinkris Aloha Well-Known Member

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    i really dont get that mentality. what good person or friend for that matter would turn their friends away in a crisis? i may understand giving them the boot if they werent making an effort to contribute but sending them out as they show up is just asking for trouble. not to mention ending a friendship during an ultimately temporary situation in most of the probable disasters we are likely to face. its nearly impossible they wouldnt have anything they could bring from home that would be helpful and if they couldnt make it home to collect those things would be all the more reason to help. nothing invites loyalty like helping when its most needed from most people receiving help. more mouths to feed also mean more backs to work, more security and more versatility.
     
  3. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Work is full of all kinds of people and they each handle FEAR in there own way. It would be better if the time we live in didn't drive people to madness with all the fears going on today. What will the future bring, nobody knows but it seems there are a lot of people with a negative outlook.
     
  4. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    This is a common topic of discussion on prepper forums.

    And to go further, no, people who didn't prep, who think they can just show up at my house, whether they were a friend or not, will probably not be welcome.

    I don't subscribe to the whole imminent inevitable global collapse scenario - I think it is very unlikely for a number of reasons. But if it did happen (hypothetically), I would only welcome my kids and probably a few members of my family. My kids come first and I don't have enough food or med supplies for them - so anybody that endangers their survivability in a collapse scenario is simply not welcome - period.

    It is interesting that there are always people who say they will help those in need in such a situation - at least they say that in a post to an internet forum - and then use that premise to criticize those who say they won't.

    But there are hundreds of millions of people who daily are in worse situations than their hypothetical collapse scenarios - and do they help those people? When it is easy to help them? When it won't threaten their survival? When the only inconvenience to them is that they won't have cable and their kids won't get the latest X-Box?

    Usually not. At least not in any meaningful manner - maybe ten dollars at work when the United Way campaign is going on. :rolleyes:

    If they won't give to help people in desperate need now - how much less likely is it that they will give when their own survival and the survival of their family is on the line?

    And yes, before you ask (probably in a snarky comment), I have given to people in need - thousands of dollars to orphanages and other causes for children in need - and I was happy to help. Moreover, for four years I physically risked my life to rescue people in bad situations.

    So yeah - don't come knocking on my door. Anybody and everybody that can should prepare for emergency situations to the best of their ability to do so.

    double.gif
     
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  5. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    If you want to save the world then you should lead by example and take care of yourself first. I really don't know what I would do in a big event but I don't think giving my families chance at life to strangers is the right thing to do.

    Have I helped others? At times I have gone out of my way but I also have sent in a lifetime of tax dollars to pay the way for others. I guess I would make my choice on an individual basis.o_O
     
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  6. IronMonster

    IronMonster Washington Opinionated Member Diamond Supporter

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    I actually subscribe to a different prepper philosophy. Basically that if it really is a SHTF situation what I am going to need is people, good people. Not to say I would just let anyone pile on in but my friends and family will most assuredly be welcome. There is a limit to what I could support but my plans include having food, weapons and ammo for a crew, Not a single person holed up taking on the world.

    I also think it is a pretty remote possibility. I am unlikely to ever see a situation that is a true TEOTWAWKI. I would put the odds at many thousands to one in my lifetime. However if the unthinkable happens I know that it will be people, not a pile of stuff that will make the difference.

    That guy who wrote the bit on SHTFplan.com is a bit delusional. Having 10 years worth of food and a 100,000 rounds of ammo rat holed in a remote cabin for him, his wife and a couple of kids would work till the first bands of the golden horde (or worse) overtook his location. I think having 20-50 people with different skill sets, growing food, doing patrols and security and having each others back is a much more realistic hope of surviving some apocalyptic event. On top of that it would could and most likely would be a fulfilling and rewarding life working hard with a good group of people to build a new life.

    No matter how much you love your wife and kids if you plan on spending every waking moment with them fighting the world sooner or later its going to get ugly. Your kids and wife will have to be armed and forced into protective roles, where if you had 20 folks maybe they could be back at the homestead cooking meals and mending clothes. (not to say thats a woman's place, I would be more than willing to press a single trained adult woman into a protective roll, Just saying that wives and kids should not be the first line of defense )

    I just dont think these lone wolf mad dog folks really have thought through much. If the world does fall apart day to day life will go on. Its not like a movie where it will be the hero against the world and the hero wins. Those who are kind, work together and support one another are the ones who will have some sort of a life.
     
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  7. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Certainly having a community is better - you can't stay awake 24/7 - not to mention do all the work necessary to survive.

    But that doesn't mean that you have to accept everybody "friend" or family member that comes knocking on your door.

    My plan is this:

    My kids (and their cats - they won't come without their cats) are welcome - whatever it takes to make them welcome, comfortable and safe, I will do within the limits of my personal ethos. They will stay in my house with me.

    Anybody else, it will be case by case basis - and if they are going to stay on my property it will most likely be inside the insulated but unheated 2k SF shop because there simply won't be room in the house for them.

    They will have to supply their own food - regardless of how much I have, the only people I will share it with will be my kids.

    I am borderline Aspergers, so I simply don't have many friends. But I do have neighbors - all of whom have acreage, some of whom have firearms, and some of whom have some useful skills, and they all have gensets and wells.

    I can't imagine any "friend" (except a friendly neighbor) coming to knock on my door. For one thing, I have never invited a "friend" up here (except one who hasn't found the time to drop by). Colleagues at work - I am friendly with them, but outside of work hours I do not spend any time with them and none of them know exactly where I live, and I haven't invited them here.

    So for the most part, it is more or less a non-issue with me. I might get some family (besides my kids) but most of them either have their own homes or are too far away or just would not make it here for whatever reason - some are not welcome simply due to who they are and how they choose to live.

    But as I said, I just don't worry much about it - the whole scenario is just very unlikely in my opinion.
     
  8. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    I like reading what other people are saying but wonder how anyone can "plan" for those SHTF times they are talking about. It's not like a family plan that you go get from the government:D I doubt much will ever happen in my lifetime, made it through the last 62 years and no SHTF.

    At best there may be some riots or food shortages or maybe an ebola outbreak but I seriously doubt it will ever go full Mad Max. In real life the bad guys would be hunted down and killed by the civilzed:D
     
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  9. The Heretic

    The Heretic Oregon Well-Known Member

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    When I first got into "prepping" Mel Tappan and other prophets of doom were all saying that collapse was imminent and inevitable. That was 40 years ago.

    Hell, Robert Heinlein was saying he thought nuclear war was imminent and inevitable before I was born.

    We have not had any major collapses or nuclear wars since I was born, and the ones before I was born the human race survived and even thrived.

    So no, the sudden collapse, for whatever reason, where everybody worldwide evacuates the cities to live in the mountains/etc., I don't see it happening for a number of reasons.

    What I do see is what is happening now - gradually, but yes, inevitably - population growth/density causing depletion of natural resources, energy costs rising, potable water levels dropping, droughts, climate change, pollution everywhere causing all kinds of problems, overfishing, arable land getting scarcer and more expensive, food getting more expensive.

    All of this will come to a point in the next 3 to 5 decades where we just cannot support the human population - the "carrying capacity" of our environment will be less than the number of people and something will have to give - in short, people will start dying faster than the growth.

    Side effects will be wars and all kinds of other problems that will be bad, but it won't be something as simple as people evacuating the cities in a short period of time.
     
  10. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Ya I was a fan of Mel Tappan. He wrote Survival Guns and a few other books. I got started with him when he wrote for some of the gun magazines. Fear has always been a big seller but back then when I was young it wasn't fear that sold me on being a "Survivalist", it was just cool to be different. Errr Mel didn't survive as long as he wanted too_O

    Today's communication is a lot better so fear is sold a lot easier. People today are spooked into any number of terrors and the media pushes it to get more viewers. The world has always had its dangers and always will. Men have always faced them, that is what men do. The best anyone has going for them in stockpiles of food and guns is its an insurance against dangerous times. None of it is a guarantee you will live through them.
     
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  11. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    If the year-long collapse of Bosnia is any indication, the bad guys will form gangs which will prey on the civilized and those who stick with the "old ways of thinking" of morality.

    Whether the entire US could collapse like that, for that long, is doubtful as things look today, but regionally, for several weeks, I could believe it given the perfect storm of events.

    Just look at how long it took New Orleans to fall apart after Katrina. Days, if that much.
     
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  12. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    Furgastan is another example of how society breaks down in today's world , what do all of the examples have in common?o_O
     
  13. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    ummm, they all have been discussed on this forum! :eek:
     
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  14. rick benjamin

    rick benjamin USA, Or, Damascus Secure the drama Silver Supporter 2016 Volunteer

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    I'm encouraged by all of you preparing ...

    I read Tappan. For want of finances, didn't see his solutions doable.
    Also read Bruce Clayton's "Thinking about Survival".
    In it, he suggests a group perimeter and how to support it.
    When up and running, supports a lot of folks with a little.
    Someone said "But someone will kill you and take your stuff"
    I replied "may be true, but may take some effort and the price will be high"

    My brother-in-law died of a heart attack as he and sis-in-law were doing the deed.
    My wish that we all be so fortunate.
     
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  15. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    :D Well yes a lot have things have been discussed on the net but there are new people coming in all the time. If you are bored with the same subjects the whole net is open for your own thread.:D

    The world changes all the time, some change with it or go with the flow. Others have heard it all and shut down the conversations.o_O
     
  16. Just Jim

    Just Jim Well-Known Member

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    So back to the original question, who are you willing to share with?

    Add to that, who will share with you?:D
     
  17. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I have a copy of Survival Guns autographed by Mel. To me, he was the best of the old school survival authors. I cant believe how much old survival literature I have!
    In my situation I have to rely on my neighbors, people I have known for 20-35 yrs. We have a plan, supplies and weapons. Probably be overrun in a week!
     
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  18. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    Sorry Just Jim, I couldn't see where you were going with the "what do they have in common" question, and took my best guess. Will you supply the answer before the air runs out? :cool:
     
  19. Doc In UPlace

    Doc In UPlace Tacoma-ish Well-Known Member

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    As to sharing, I have a network and if you're not in it before SHTF then you'll have to keep movin' on, the exterior of my place would probably resemble the Walking Dead more than Salvation Army on Thanksgiving. Or Salvation Navy for that matter.
     
  20. Sam Kinard

    Sam Kinard Active Member

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    Anyone thinking that "civility" and "being nice" matter when the chips are down are the same ones that say "it's just too horrible to think about" or "it couldn't happen here".

    I don't need anyone showing up armed, we've got that covered. If they show up without food, they will not eat. It is wildly irresponsible to kill your child because of liberal ideals. We are not a collective and those giving what they need to survive away will die.

    It's amusing to hear folks say that it simply can't or won't happen here. Tomorrow will not be tempered by your ability or willingness to stomach it. Rome didn't collapse when the people were self-reliant, it collapsed when everyone was completely dependent upon the state. Sound familiar? Mel Tappan may have called it a little early and he may have been on the wrong side of the Cascades, but now that everything is 10x as bad as it was in the '70's we can take that as a sign that a collapse will never happen? What keeps it from happening? A fake dollar and stock market? A wide open border? An obvious desire by our "leaders" to take us down several pegs? What is it about all the signs of the Apocalypse that are coming together that seem to make folks think it won't happen? A lot of us were laughed at when we predicted all of the things the government was doing. You would be laughed out of the room if you told someone 5 years ago that The NSA was actually recording EVERYTHING, but here we are. Imagine how "paranoid" you would be if you told people that our government gives American guns to Mexican drug dealers to kill Americans only to infringe upon our rights. If you told people that the day before Fast & Furious broke, you would be labeled dangerously paranoid, yet again, here we are. What if you told people that the IRS was targeting those of us who didn't subscribe to Socialist control? What if you told people that the Gulf Of Tonkin Incident didn't even happen? Now that the US government acknowledges that it never happened, people STILL refuse to believe it. So, we live in a world where things that "can't happen" have been happening for at least 50 years.

    Whether we have an oil crisis that grinds us to a halt, a nuclear war or incident that knocks us back to the stone age, some super virus(there sure are a lot of those popping up out of nowhere. I would suggest that it could be intentional, but I'll just wait awhile for it to be uncovered to avoid the paranoia label.) or our completely fake and horribly immoral financial situation comes finally crashing down, or any other myriad situations, you can bet your bottom dollar that it will happen. I don't know if it will happen tomorrow or in 250 years, but a house of cards in a tornado can't stay up for long.