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Grind Hard ammo??
- Thread Starter Yarome
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Never heard of them. (And I'm not going to bother denying I thought of something quite different when seeing the name.)
The site seems to imply small shop, which would make me a little concerned.
The site seems to imply small shop, which would make me a little concerned.
- Thread Starter
- #5
They sure didn't use a focus group on their name choice. That's for sure... .
Supposedly they supply ammo to LE, the military and just sunk $20mil into a new manufaturing facility.
I haven't seriously looked around at ammo for a few years and not familiar with a lot of names on the market for what passes as quality plinker ammo these days. 9mm is one caliber I really don't have much of. Only had 1 G26 I somehow got stuck with, but stumbled into a G19 build, so.... guess I better bite the bullet and get a bit more to throw through it before prices get completely out of control again.
Supposedly they supply ammo to LE, the military and just sunk $20mil into a new manufaturing facility.
I haven't seriously looked around at ammo for a few years and not familiar with a lot of names on the market for what passes as quality plinker ammo these days. 9mm is one caliber I really don't have much of. Only had 1 G26 I somehow got stuck with, but stumbled into a G19 build, so.... guess I better bite the bullet and get a bit more to throw through it before prices get completely out of control again.
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They provide ammo to Grindhouse. 
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I wouldn't buy very much of it.Well... I guess I'll be the guinea pig. The sale and promo code are about to expire so for the price I guess I'll hope it can't be an worse than **** ammo.
(*'ed to protect the innocent)
You don't want to get stuck with 1000 rds of crap ammo.
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a friend of mine shoots their .308 win stuff, says its ok, for what its worth.
- Thread Starter
- #10
That's interesting. Their website clearly shows copper colored FMJ's and what arrived today clearly have brass/yellow jackets. Should I care?
I've never shot brass jacket ammo, and I'm not sure where I came up with it, but in my mind I've always associated it with cheaper crap range ammo. I realize it's esentially just copper with a higher zinc ratio, but nevertheless... I still seem to have that association, unfounded or not.
Thoughts from the more learned on the "copper" vs "brass" jacket issue?
I've never shot brass jacket ammo, and I'm not sure where I came up with it, but in my mind I've always associated it with cheaper crap range ammo. I realize it's esentially just copper with a higher zinc ratio, but nevertheless... I still seem to have that association, unfounded or not.
Thoughts from the more learned on the "copper" vs "brass" jacket issue?
Fiocchi uses brass jackets.
- Thread Starter
- #12
Well. I played guinea pig and now I know.
Better to stear clear of that outfit. Received product was not as advertised, I gave their CS department over 3 weeks to reply to my inquiry and was completely ignored. Although, they did contact me after I left an honest 3 star review on their product page... which you can probably guess correctly... that,was intercepted and never appeared on their website. Heck... they where the ones that sent me an email and ASKED me to post a review!
Not a very serious attempt to respond or resolve anything though:
"Hi there,
I saw your review and wanted to check in with you. I apologize if I missed an email from you. Customer service and satisfaction is very important to us so please advise how I can help.
Sincerely,
Katie Weiss"
As if my initial inquiry to their CS department or my product review didn't already outline my concerns clearly enough, they want me to explain it again and offer them advice on how to respond to a customer concern??
I knew the risks going in, ghosted them back and chalked it up as a learning experience.
Buyer Beware!
Better to stear clear of that outfit. Received product was not as advertised, I gave their CS department over 3 weeks to reply to my inquiry and was completely ignored. Although, they did contact me after I left an honest 3 star review on their product page... which you can probably guess correctly... that,was intercepted and never appeared on their website. Heck... they where the ones that sent me an email and ASKED me to post a review!
Not a very serious attempt to respond or resolve anything though:
"Hi there,
I saw your review and wanted to check in with you. I apologize if I missed an email from you. Customer service and satisfaction is very important to us so please advise how I can help.
Sincerely,
Katie Weiss"
As if my initial inquiry to their CS department or my product review didn't already outline my concerns clearly enough, they want me to explain it again and offer them advice on how to respond to a customer concern??
I knew the risks going in, ghosted them back and chalked it up as a learning experience.
Buyer Beware!
Have you shot the ammo yet or not?Well. I played guinea pig and now I know.
Better to stear clear of that outfit. Received product was not as advertised, I gave their CS department over 3 weeks to reply to my inquiry and was completely ignored. Although, they did contact me after I left an honest 3 star review on their product page... which you can probably guess correctly... that,was intercepted and never appeared on their website. Heck... they where the ones that sent me an email and ASKED me to post a review!
Not a very serious attempt to respond or resolve anything though:
"Hi there,
I saw your review and wanted to check in with you. I apologize if I missed an email from you. Customer service and satisfaction is very important to us so please advise how I can help.
Sincerely,
Katie Weiss"
As if my initial inquiry to their CS department or my product review didn't already outline my concerns clearly enough, they want me to explain it again and offer them advice on how to respond to a customer concern??
I knew the risks going in, ghosted them back and chalked it up as a learning experience.
Buyer Beware!
I've seen plenty of brass jacket bullets on fine quality ammunition. Frankly, I'd rather shoot sellior belot than Blazer Brass, which has a brass and copper jacket in that order. They could be wondering what your dilemma actually is, or be wondering if you're just looking for free ammo. I get that it's not as advertised, unless it is just advertised FMJ and doesn't mention the material...
I suppose all I really want to know is one thing...
How does it shoot?
I wouldn't worry about the color of the bullet jackets. Copper-looking jackets are actually "gilding metal," which is an alloy of 95% copper and 5% zinc. Brass is also an alloy of copper and zinc, has a higher % of zinc which gives it the yellow color. Like Montana Gold bullets, which have been around for many years now and have a good reputation. With a lower % of copper, brass may be a bit harder then gilding metal. BUT: Both brass and gilding metal are much softer than steel. The difference in hardness between the two is probably insignificant as a wear factor compared to the heat generated from propellant combustion. Especially the throat of the bore.
Bullet jacket color probably has nothing to do with Grind Hard ammo performance and satisfaction. Surely, it can be krap on its own merit aside from that.
When I visit product / company websites, I nearly always look at the contact information to see where they are located. I couldn't find this information on the Grind Hard website. Not that it was difficult to find it elsewhere. But why not show it on a website? Possibly because they think it will deter people from coing around.
In times of scarcity, manufacturers come out of the wood work. Some turn out to be okay, some not. There is chance involved in buying product from Johnny-come-latelies. Especially if done from a distance where you cannot see the product before you fork over the money.
Bullet jacket color probably has nothing to do with Grind Hard ammo performance and satisfaction. Surely, it can be krap on its own merit aside from that.
When I visit product / company websites, I nearly always look at the contact information to see where they are located. I couldn't find this information on the Grind Hard website. Not that it was difficult to find it elsewhere. But why not show it on a website? Possibly because they think it will deter people from coing around.
In times of scarcity, manufacturers come out of the wood work. Some turn out to be okay, some not. There is chance involved in buying product from Johnny-come-latelies. Especially if done from a distance where you cannot see the product before you fork over the money.
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Starring Jeremy irons and John Holmes. Sorry you got taken in the end.
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So what was the actual issue with the ammo aside from the color? You said in your OP that you were looking for "plinker" ammo (or at least implied that was gona be the use) but then said in your other post you associate brass jacket with crap "range" ammo.. I don't know about everyone else but plinking and range ammo is the same to me. For what it's worth i always get the cheapest 9mm I can find online as long as it has brass shell. Sometimes cheapest is re-manufactured ammo sometimes its new. Sometimes its copper plated sometimes brass. Ive never had what id call an "issue" with any of them regardless of what it was plated with.
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Sounds like you have experience here.Starring Jeremy irons and John Holmes. Sorry you got taken in the end.
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I've seen some movies in my early years.Sounds like you have experience here.
- Thread Starter
- #19
I didn't want to present anything I wasn't absolutely sure of, but I guess since I opened this can of worms I'll lay all my cards and suspicions on the table and let others decide for themselves.
I didn't ask for anything from them and am not looking for free ammo. I knowingly took a risk, I paid for it and I'll live with it. I simply raised my concern about what I received vs. what I thought I was buying to see what their response or explaination might be, but got ghosted by their CS.
I'm not totally adverse to brass jacketted ammo, but I AM adverse to receiving something different than what was represented before I bought it. If one element varies, without a reasonable explaination, it has to make you wonder what other claims they made might have been less than truthful as well, KWIM?
Hard Grind Ammo depicts all of their bullets with copper jackets. They claim their "premium grade" training ammo is 100% MFG in the US in their Port St. Lucie, FL facility and listing highlights include:
"brand new 115 projectiles manufactured in house, fresh lot of match grade primers, and fresh lot of match pistol powder."
"We worked hard to get our training ammo to hold the same tight tolerances SD and ES to match our defense ammo."
"All of our ammo is loaded in our State of the art facility with our brand new loading machines."
"Multiple laser check points, lots of QC goes into every single round and a final manual visual inspection."
"All of these steps and quality components are put into place to be able to call it what it is, Premium."
SOUNDS like some pretty decent stuff!
Here's what I know about Yavascalar Troy ammo.
The ammunition brand is owned by Yavaşçalar Troy Savunma Sanayi A.Ş. in Turkey and originally distributed in the US by Yavaşçalar Troy Holding LLC in Mulberry, Florida.
The holding company is currently registered in Canada and they now claim that all components are 100% manufactured in their FL facility.
To note, the Hard Grind Port St. Lucie, FL faciity is a 2hr drive from Mulberry, FL... where Troy's facility is located.
What does Troy have to do with Hard Grind? Well... the headstamps on the ammo I received where "Troy", I know Troy bullets are brass jacketted, and the bullet tray in the Hard Grind ammo boxes is identical to the trays used by Troy.
Why does it matter? I noticed some reviews on Troy ammo that claimed issues with FTF's, FTC's and underpowered loads.
But how does HG shoot? Well... I can't be entirely sure and is why I intentionally didn't post anything about it earlier. I only recently aquired a new G19 (having gotten rid of all my 9's years ago). I don't have a chonograph nor do I have a wide selection of 9mm ammo.
So what happened? I put about 150rds of HG ammo through it and had 5 or 6 intermittent FTC's. All the smoke release buttons worked, and the groupings where a little sloopy, but this was a brand new G19 and I haven't shot any 9's in a very long time. I then put 50rnds of AE through it without issue and the groupings seemed to improve.
My take-away from that is "inconclusive" if there was really an ammo issue or a new stiff G19 and 'me' issue. I don't really recall ever having an issue with a new glock not happily eating whatever I've pushed in the pipe, but it's not unheard of. Did the AE actually shoot better? Well... the G19 got all warmed up and broken in a bit, as did I, on the 150rnd of HG ammo so... maybe... maybe not? I also only shot 50rnds of AE vs. 150rnds of HG so the odds of a FTC was higher on the HG vs. the AE.
I will say that the HG might have seemed a litte less "snappy" than the AE, but that's based on perception alone and could easily be discounted to the fact they are using different powder. If a guy's already a little leery about his ammo I'm well aware that perception alone may be a little skewed and unreliable without hard info to back it up. Like a chronograph.
The nutshell? Well... I feel confident I didn't receive ammo "as advertised". My suspicion... best case, HG was having supply issues and likely loaded up a bunch of Troy brass and bullets in their own facility and shipped it out as HG ammo. In that case I would hope it was loaded to a higher QC standard, but not exactly "100% in house, premium ammo". Worst case... they simply repackaged Troy ammo into their HG boxes and shipped it out as their own.
I dunno if the primers are HG or Troy, and I guess it's not "unimaginable" that the 2 facilities so close to each other might be using the same bullet trays (sharing shipments from a common supplier)... However!
IMHO, there is something definately a bit wonky with what I received from HG and I stand by my previous statement, "Buyer Beware".
I won't be purchasing from them again.
I didn't ask for anything from them and am not looking for free ammo. I knowingly took a risk, I paid for it and I'll live with it. I simply raised my concern about what I received vs. what I thought I was buying to see what their response or explaination might be, but got ghosted by their CS.
I'm not totally adverse to brass jacketted ammo, but I AM adverse to receiving something different than what was represented before I bought it. If one element varies, without a reasonable explaination, it has to make you wonder what other claims they made might have been less than truthful as well, KWIM?
Hard Grind Ammo depicts all of their bullets with copper jackets. They claim their "premium grade" training ammo is 100% MFG in the US in their Port St. Lucie, FL facility and listing highlights include:
"brand new 115 projectiles manufactured in house, fresh lot of match grade primers, and fresh lot of match pistol powder."
"We worked hard to get our training ammo to hold the same tight tolerances SD and ES to match our defense ammo."
"All of our ammo is loaded in our State of the art facility with our brand new loading machines."
"Multiple laser check points, lots of QC goes into every single round and a final manual visual inspection."
"All of these steps and quality components are put into place to be able to call it what it is, Premium."
SOUNDS like some pretty decent stuff!
Here's what I know about Yavascalar Troy ammo.
The ammunition brand is owned by Yavaşçalar Troy Savunma Sanayi A.Ş. in Turkey and originally distributed in the US by Yavaşçalar Troy Holding LLC in Mulberry, Florida.
The holding company is currently registered in Canada and they now claim that all components are 100% manufactured in their FL facility.
To note, the Hard Grind Port St. Lucie, FL faciity is a 2hr drive from Mulberry, FL... where Troy's facility is located.
What does Troy have to do with Hard Grind? Well... the headstamps on the ammo I received where "Troy", I know Troy bullets are brass jacketted, and the bullet tray in the Hard Grind ammo boxes is identical to the trays used by Troy.
Why does it matter? I noticed some reviews on Troy ammo that claimed issues with FTF's, FTC's and underpowered loads.
But how does HG shoot? Well... I can't be entirely sure and is why I intentionally didn't post anything about it earlier. I only recently aquired a new G19 (having gotten rid of all my 9's years ago). I don't have a chonograph nor do I have a wide selection of 9mm ammo.
So what happened? I put about 150rds of HG ammo through it and had 5 or 6 intermittent FTC's. All the smoke release buttons worked, and the groupings where a little sloopy, but this was a brand new G19 and I haven't shot any 9's in a very long time. I then put 50rnds of AE through it without issue and the groupings seemed to improve.
My take-away from that is "inconclusive" if there was really an ammo issue or a new stiff G19 and 'me' issue. I don't really recall ever having an issue with a new glock not happily eating whatever I've pushed in the pipe, but it's not unheard of. Did the AE actually shoot better? Well... the G19 got all warmed up and broken in a bit, as did I, on the 150rnd of HG ammo so... maybe... maybe not? I also only shot 50rnds of AE vs. 150rnds of HG so the odds of a FTC was higher on the HG vs. the AE.
I will say that the HG might have seemed a litte less "snappy" than the AE, but that's based on perception alone and could easily be discounted to the fact they are using different powder. If a guy's already a little leery about his ammo I'm well aware that perception alone may be a little skewed and unreliable without hard info to back it up. Like a chronograph.
The nutshell? Well... I feel confident I didn't receive ammo "as advertised". My suspicion... best case, HG was having supply issues and likely loaded up a bunch of Troy brass and bullets in their own facility and shipped it out as HG ammo. In that case I would hope it was loaded to a higher QC standard, but not exactly "100% in house, premium ammo". Worst case... they simply repackaged Troy ammo into their HG boxes and shipped it out as their own.
I dunno if the primers are HG or Troy, and I guess it's not "unimaginable" that the 2 facilities so close to each other might be using the same bullet trays (sharing shipments from a common supplier)... However!
IMHO, there is something definately a bit wonky with what I received from HG and I stand by my previous statement, "Buyer Beware".
I won't be purchasing from them again.
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Our family bought a 1000 rnds 9mm end of 2020-21, wife originally thought they were local based on a misinterpreted add. But I pointed out that they shipped from Florida or something. had on average a 1 misfire per 50. Dead primer or No powder ….. no sqibs though. Never disassemble one. Ran through em as fast as I could to get out of the locker.
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