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Never cared much for Kel-Tec after having owned a Grendel P10 (Grendel was the precursor to Kel-Tec) which was an abomination - cheapest most poorly designed and built POS pistol I ever owned.
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and if yours is a Gen 1 you might want to research the 'fix' for the epoxied in barrel before it loosens up.The way it's put together, with screws, glue, and plastic, doesn't inspire confidence.
The only thing that I can see that may put Glock "behind the curve " would be not having a direct answer to the p365. So what? That gun, like so many other, is not for everyone. Great gun but will not replace my g26! Considering that Glock was THE pioneer in the polymer movement, and that virtually every other polymer pistol seems to be a Glock wannabe(just my opinion), and has stayed true to their philosophy of simplicity and except reliability, not to mention their legion of "fan boys", I'd say they were still pretty much riding high on that curve. Tried to locate a g19 lately?
Actually the HK VP70 was the pioneer of polymer pistols at least a decade before glock.much of the dependability and reliability is derived from expired Browning patents.
If I'm not mistaken the vp70 was a machine pistol that went out of production after about 10 yrs. Didn't have nearly the impact on the market as Glock. 30 some odd yrs later and Glock is still one of the best sellers world wide. Seems the old "one trick pony" is still king .
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
Ok, hijacked op's thread far too much. Bivy53 out.
Kel-Tec is innovative, I'll give them that much.
I would take rock solid reliability of innovation any day. It's great to innovate, it gives other manufacturers competition and pushes them to do the same.
EXCEPT, the other manufacturers know KT isn't any kind of competition.
The vp 70 was produced from 1970 through 1989, sold around the world, was unique in function and design, Glock was a pioneer in nothing, lifted most, if not all, of his design from browning. The nylon 66 was junk with a metal receiver by the way, the tkb 23 was a failed experiment.While the VP70 did come out prior to the Glock, it was not the first and I'd say the Glock did indeed "pioneer in the polymer movement" by proving it and making it mainstream, otherwise one could go back to 1959 and the Remington Nylon 66 or 1963 and the TKB-023, which was actually the first polymer pistol.
World's First Polymer Pistol was a Makarov!? -
The vp 70 was produced from 1970 through 1989, sold around the world, was unique in function and design, Glock was a pioneer in nothing, lifted most, if not all, of his design from browning. The nylon 66 was junk with a metal receiver by the way, the tkb 23 was a failed experiment.
It was for a long time. It was made with the same alloy's most AR's are made of. Problem was what this did with cost. At the time they were making the Sub9 and Sub40 they ran the same as a base AR did in those days. They did not sell well. So when they redesigned them it made the price go from around $750 to around $250. After that they were never able to make as many as sold. They were always hard to find unless you bought them from the auctions. Of course any time there is a panic going on there were even harder to lay hands on. During the great panic before Trump won the 9mm version started selling at close to 1K. The .40 version close to $800. Only reason I resisted the temptation to sell one of mine at that time was the PCC market was so limited then and it was such a hassle to find the 2 I had at "normal price". Even after the GenII came out and the market tanked these were still something that was harder to come by at local shops. Normal price now is low $400's and they still can not make them as fast as they sell. Amazingly many still want a 1K gun for that price and seem disappointed when they don't get one <shrug>and if yours is a Gen 1 you might want to research the 'fix' for the epoxied in barrel before it loosens up.
I didn't get that far with mine. After one complete tear down and reassembly it went up for sale.
Regardless still a great design and would have been much better if built with a little more steel & alloy as opposed to plastic and a little larger over all.
Mine is a Gen2, .40S&W Glock mag. I think I paid $399 for it. At first it had a tendency to jam, til I polished the feed ramp, chamfered the chamber edge, or something (I forget). Since then it's been completely reliable and reasonably accurate. Getting it sighted in was a challenge, what with having to loosen the front sight, move it ever so slightly, and try to tighten it without it moving again (repeatedly).
I know people say there are better PCCs out there, but I chose this one specifically for the one thing that none of the others have: the ability to quickly and easily fold into a tiny package. Other than that, I'm just not terribly interested in a PCC. I do like the looks of the Ruger; it's probably a much better gun for the money, from what I've heard. I'd probably be a little interested in one, if I had money to burn right now. I'm sure it's much more ergonomic and fun as a range gun, but still not really what I'm looking for.
I fully understand the limitations of the KelTec. I was never expecting a $1k gun. All I'm saying is that if someone else would make a similar gun that folds up so compact, but make it more like a real firearm and improve on a few of the KelTec's deficiencies, I think there would be a market for double the price. I just like the fact that it will easily fit in a suitcase or a backpack so easily. If anyone knows of any other gun that folds into such an easy, compact package, please let me know.
I do still regularly rely on my S2k as it's never failed after break in. Its long been carried into places like jobs with me in a laptop case. No one ever gives a second glance, yet it's there ready if needed. Since I have had it around a couple decades now no idea how much ammo it's eaten up. Suspect the way it's made it will wear out some day. If it does it will be replaced again if still made. The price point makes it something that is often traveled with since if it got stolen I would not cry nearly as much as one that cost several times as much to replace. I would certainly not take it into battle but I'm way too old for that anyway. For around the home protection? I have no problem at all with depending on it. It's kept loaded with pricey ammo, that Speer +P GDHP. Stuff turns out the same performance as a .357 in a 4inch tube. That's why it wears that light / laser combo. In case needed at night. The sights are nothing if not crude but even my old eyes can put a happy stick into an 8" target at 50'ft all day with mine. So for around the home the thing would be devastating if some drug zombie came crashing in.I can definitely see where an AR PCC has advantages, and I have no doubt that they are a lot easier to shoot, due to better ergonomics, but for me personally, the KelTec has one thing that I like. It's an actual rifle that can practically fit in your wallet. For some reason that just appeals to me in a practical way.
The practical side being you could take it with you about anywhere you ever wanted/needed to. The huge downside to that, though, is that you wouldn't want to actually rely on it if you had to. So there's the catch. It's a range toy with terrible ergonomics. For some reason I still like it.