Messages
4,734
Reactions
12,001
The Hearing Protection Act failed even when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.

My scientific analysis of the chances of SBRs being removed from the NFA in the next thirty years by Congress are 0.005%. Chances of the current US Supreme Court striking down the NFA by judicial decision are scientifically 3.27597%.

65D8DDED-A578-4DEA-A0FA-CABA7603E18D.jpeg
 
Messages
8,005
Reactions
13,297
Agreed. And if SBR's get booted from the NFA or the rule is repealed... they sure bought off a lot of people with a free stamp for nothing. Their names certainly won't ever be deleted from the "possession of a dangerous item" red flag federal registry.

The point being, there is more than one viable option to choose from and they all come with some amount of risk. It's up to each to decide what risk, rewards and what they are willing to live with... for them.

It just sticks in my craw when people start blasting others and name calling if everyone doesn't agree with THIER choice. Keep it civil and it's not necessary to repeat yourself over and over and over. You're happy about sheepling it and think everyone should too. We get it.🤣
Sorry . I keep saying the same thing over and over again because I hope to drone out the folks saying "ah, dont worry about it. Theyre going to repeal the NFA anyway". Its not going to happen and the courts aren't on your side when it comes to the NFA. I will be damned and go to Hell if I am in any way responsible or anyone listens to my drivel if I say the same thing and they end up rotting in a federal jail cell while their life implodes . There are real world consequences to spreading misinformation. I wont be a party to it. I'm not one of those guys who sits in their basement egging people on to do commit federal felonies.
 
Messages
3,042
Reactions
5,991
The Hearing Protection Act failed even when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.

My scientific analysis of the chances of SBRs being removed from the NFA in the next thirty years by Congress are 0.005%. Chances of the current US Supreme Court striking down the NFA by judicial decision are scientifically 3.27597%.
I dunno the numbers game, but I agree that SCOTUS getting involved or having them removed from the NFA is a very long shot. If I had to guess... I would bet more on them backpeddling on the rules final draft. The EPA ruling seems to have cooled their heels a bit and braced pistols do fall well into "common use" and "large economic impact"... requiring congressional legislation.

That seems to be what slowed their roll on frames and receivers so... who knows. They might be foreced to compromise their "wish list" on SBR'ing pistols, too. We'll see.
 
Messages
286
Reactions
181
I really have no idea why people are having a problem understanding the concept of amnesty periods. Its not that difficult. Sure , you can buy something and it can be completely legal when you buy it. Then the rules or laws change and its not legal any more. And its not that its actually being made illegal. It will still be legal to own but if you want to keep it you are going to have to register it as an SBR in accordance with the NFA. Its not that you have to meet any requirements. The picture just to show you have one so you dont do like people like me would and register everything I own if they give free stamps out. In the history ( tradition ) of US gun laws its happened MANY times. 1934, 1968, 1982, 1994 etc . If you file a form 1 you are applying for an excise tax stamp. You dont have to meet any requirements other the ability to own a SBR. If your picture is determined to be a actual pistol then you dont have to SBR it. The Amnesty just period gives you a period of time to register the firearm as an SBR without getting in trouble for owning said now unlicensed SBR. Its a get out of (free?) jail ticket. USE IT. Its a good thing . Waiting until after the grace period ( amnesty period ) is over to see what happens is stupid!!!
As far as the stock goes it ( the brace) will just be a stock. You can buy stocks now. You will still be able to buy stocks.
I believe the text offered - no one will know exact text until December - relates to "QUALIFYING" for a stamp. The Government has "NOT" (my mistake left word out)
specifically stated all applications will "AUTOMATICALLY" receive a free tax stamp.
Technically if you remove the brace it will not be an SBR after the registration period - unless the ATF decides to define an adjustable buffer tube as a ket part of being an SBR instead of a smooth budder tube with no adjustment points.
The ATF has to legal power to change law. That requires Congress. That they are allowed to reflects on our poor Justice system or lack there of.
Amnesty definition - Usually specifically of pardons or offers of pardon for a class of offenses against a government - the only offense to the Government is their unpredictability.
The ATF has developed a Form 41 (you should know this) to evaluate on a point system that a braced AR pistol qualifies as acceptable - that form has not been eliminated - so if you picture shows it does not qualify for a stamp won't you be asked for the $200 or to surrender the brace.
Either I wasn't explicit enough when I first responded or you apparently glossed over what was written?
 
Last Edited:
Messages
3,042
Reactions
5,991
...because I hope to drone out the folks saying "ah, dont worry about it. Theyre going to repeal the NFA anyway". Its not going to happen and the courts aren't on your side when it comes to the NFA. I will be damned and go to Hell if I am in any way responsible or anyone listens to my drivel if I say the same thing and they end up rotting in a federal jail cell while their life implodes . There are real world consequences to spreading misinformation. I want be a party to it. I'm not one of those guys who sits in their basement egging people on to do illegal stuff.
I don't think it's in anyones job description to drown out other people's opinions around here. Leave that to the Karens and the crats. It's not like you'll be held personally responsible for other peoples choices, right? ;)

Especially when "your" decisions are based only on "your" opinions and presumptions.

Not slamming your opinon down other peoples throats is not the same thing as encouraging others to commit crimes. I haven't seen anyone in this thread encouraging anyone to commit any felony. Simply presenting ideas and thoughts for discussion based on what we all know so far, which in and of itself, has no concrete basis. It's all just supposition and discussion.
 
Last Edited:
i put in for a form 1 SBR on a new lower i picked up back in august. i dont want to be stuck in line for even longer than im already going to be
 
Messages
9,671
Reactions
19,868
braced pistols do fall well into "common use" and "large economic impact"... requiring congressional legislation.
So do suppressors but they're still on the NFA and as mentioned, the Hearing Protection Act failed repeatedly. Again. Until a certain Party makes repealing and abolishing gun control laws a central platform, we are gonna have more of the same inaction, more of the same "resistance" to "new gun control laws" and just lip service... while doing nothing meaningful to repeal current Gun control laws, and hoping that SCOTUS will do the job :rolleyes: even though there's no real way for SCOTUS to enforce SCOTUS rulings with the DOJ being under one antigun AG.
 
Messages
3,042
Reactions
5,991
So do suppressors but they're still on the NFA and as mentioned, the Hearing Protection Act failed repeatedly. Again. Until a certain Party makes repealing and abolishing gun control laws a central platform, we are gonna have more of the same inaction, more of the same "resistance" to "new gun control laws" and just lip service... while doing nothing meaningful to repeal current Gun control laws, and hoping that SCOTUS will do the job :rolleyes: even though there's no real way for SCOTUS to enforce SCOTUS rulings with the DOJ being under one antigun AG.
True. But that's also talking pre-EPA ruling, and removing something long standing already in the NFA vs. preventing something being added... or to what degree added... something to the NFA. It seems more difficult to undo an existing law (aka giving power back to the people) than it is to change law to take more rights away from the people.

The important part though being... we now have the EPA ruling that puts executive branches on notice and "hopefully" helps to stem over-reach that we didn't have in the past. It's also probably not fair to compare silencers and braced pistols in terms of "common use" since the argument for silencers is much weaker. Only about 900k of them vs, 40mil+ pistols. The economic impact as well would be disproportionate between the two.

We have tons of unconstitutional gun laws on the books that have been upheld as constitutional prior to bruen too. They wouldn't hold up today so saying, well they did it before, doesn't necessarily mean they can get away with it again. Right?
 
Last Edited:
Messages
9,671
Reactions
19,868
True. But that's also talking pre-EPA ruling, and removing something long standing already in the NFA vs. preventing something being added... or to what degree added... something to the NFA. It seems more difficult to undo an existing law (aka giving power back to the people) than it is to change law to take more rights away from the people.

The important part though being... we now have the EPA ruling that puts executive branches on notice and "hopefully" helps to stem over-reach that we didn't have in the past. It's also probably not fair to compare silencers and braced pistols in terms of "common use" since the argument for silencers is much weaker. Only about 900k of them vs, 20mil+ pistols. The economic impact as well would be disproportionate between the two.

We have tons of unconstitutional gun laws on the books that have been upheld as constitutional prior to bruen too. They wouldn't hold up today so saying, well they did it before, doesn't necessarily mean they can get away with it again. Right?
Until the SCOTUS makeup changes again and rulings are reversed. See Roe V Wade.
 
Messages
286
Reactions
181
I believe the text offered - no one will know exact text until December - relates to "QUALIFYING" for a stamp. The Government has specifically stated all applications will "AUTOMATICALLY" receive a free tax stamp.
Technically if you remove the brace it will not be an SBR after the registration period - unless the ATF decides to define an adjustable buffer tube as a ket part of being an SBR instead of a smooth budder tube with no adjustment points.
The ATF has to legal power to change law. That requires Congress. That they are allowed to reflects on our poor Justice system or lack there of.
Amnesty definition - Usually specifically of pardons or offers of pardon for a class of offenses against a government - the only offense to the Government is their unpredictability.
The ATF has developed a Form 41 (you should know this) to evaluate on a point system that a braced AR pistol qualifies as acceptable - that form has not been eliminated - so if you picture shows it does not qualify for a stamp won't you be asked for the $200 or to surrender the brace.
Either I wasn't explicit enough when I first responded or you apparently glossed over what was written?

No, they have not.
Correct - I left that key word "Not" out. Thank you. They have said they will review the applications to see if they qualify. The ATF has guaranteed nothing.
 
Messages
7,443
Reactions
20,258
The Hearing Protection Act failed even when the Republicans controlled both houses of Congress and the White House.

My scientific analysis of the chances of SBRs being removed from the NFA in the next thirty years by Congress are 0.005%. Chances of the current US Supreme Court striking down the NFA by judicial decision are scientifically 3.27597%.

View attachment 1286035
That was because the Fed op Las Vegas massacre was followed by a full on assault against The Hearing Protection Act by the Left.

1664775574512.png

The RINOs did what they always do, tuck tail and ran. Even President Trump got suckered into banning bump stocks.
 
Messages
3,042
Reactions
5,991
As the new rule drop is approaching, there is now running through the rumor mill... supposedly from ATF sources... that 4999 is being revised. That may be for the good or the bad, but it's likely not going to ressemble the one we are all familiar with from the inital announcement.

Anyone with additional info on that?
 
Messages
8,005
Reactions
13,297
Theyve got to come up with an air tight legal justification for their rules in light of recent SCOTUS rulings . Anyone who thinks theyre going to just come up with the most draconian anti constitutional set of crap they can throw at the walls and make stick is fooling themselves. They have one chance to get it right in a framework that is going to hold up to legal muster and theyre taking their time.
 
Theyve got to come up with an air tight legal justification for their rules in light of recent SCOTUS rulings . Anyone who thinks theyre going to just come up with the most draconian anti constitutional set of crap they can throw at the walls and make stick is fooling themselves. They have one chance to get it right in a framework that is going to hold up to legal muster and theyre taking their time.
Not gonna argue with you, but that "one chance to get it right" seems to be a pretty difficult target to hit, given the current make-up of the AFT...
 
Messages
8,005
Reactions
13,297
Not gonna argue with you, but that "one chance to get it right" seems to be a pretty difficult target to hit, given the current make-up of the AFT...
One chance to get something together that won’t get thrown out of the lowest district court the first day.otherwise it’s months of legal wrangling down the tubes.Ts getting crossed and Is getting dotted right now
 
Theyve got to come up with an air tight legal justification for their rules in light of recent SCOTUS rulings . Anyone who thinks theyre going to just come up with the most draconian anti constitutional set of crap they can throw at the walls and make stick is fooling themselves. They have one chance to get it right in a framework that is going to hold up to legal muster and theyre taking their time.
The idea that an unconstitutional entity actually cares about SCOTUS rulings is laughable! 😂
 

Upcoming Events

Falcon Gun Show - Classic Gun & Knife Show
Granite Falls, WA
Klamath Falls Gun Show
Klamath Falls, OR
Wes Knodel Gun Shows
Chehalis, WA

Latest Resource Reviews

New Classified Ads

Back Top