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Good guys versus bad guys...

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by capdek, Mar 23, 2009.

  1. capdek

    capdek Oregon Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    One thing that often is missed by the media and most Americans who are neither pro-gun nor anti-gun is that a careful analysis of what the pro-gun minority are fighting for versus what the anti-gun minority are fighting for clearly demonstrates who the "good guys" are and who the "bad guys" are.
    Most Americans would agree: people that fight to curtail people's rights and stereotype a minority group are "bad", while people that fight to protect people's rights and don't stereotype a minority group are "good". There's plenty of examples of this kind of characterization in modern U.S. history. A careful analysis of the pro-gun forces versus anti-gun forces shows clearly that:
    The pro-gun forces are fighting to protect the right of people to choose for themselves whether or not they want to own a firearm. They never try to stereotype the people who choose not to own guns, nor do they try to force people to own guns if they choose not to own them.
    The anti-gun forces are fighting to violate the right of people to choose for themselves whether or not they want to own a firearm. They always try to stereotype people who choose to own guns, and they try to force people to not own guns if they choose to own them.
    If this isn't a clear demonstration of who the "good guys" are and who the "bad guys" are, I don't know what would be.
    Seems to me we should be trying harder to make this sort of distinction to the American people.
    DEK
     
  2. Bend

    Bend Central OR Member

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    IMO, your rational is impecable. However, the "bad" guys are not rational. They are emotional. How do you deal with that?
     
  3. Weathermaker

    Weathermaker Washington Member

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    Uh...Emotionally? :D Sorry, couldn't resist.
     
  4. Bend

    Bend Central OR Member

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    OOOh the noooo's. Back at you. :cool:
     
  5. sweetnsauer

    sweetnsauer Salem New Member

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    The only way to deal with emotional people like that is to have a significant thing happen to them personally. Like someone else said the other day, if my guns arent the ones being banned, it doesnt matter. Even gun owners have some lack of emotion once in a while. Wihtout being robbed, raped, assaulted, or anything else happening to THEM, the bleeding hearts will never understand. I carry a weapon, I hope I never use it, but I feel safer, and more secure knowing that it is there when needed.

    I am not a believer in evolution, however the survival of the fittest is certainly one that can be seen in this situation. Those who can, and will defend themselves will ultimately survive. Those who cant, will, without government intervention of course, die.
    Emotional arguments cannot be won by logic, but by finding common ground with those who are irrational. Remember, guns dont kill people, they are simply a tool that can be used, or misused. Just as a sledgehammer can either break concrete, or your skull, a gun can shoot paper, or your heart. The ultimate responsibilty lies in the hands of the user.


    Finally, the real problem is the first one, the first amendment, it is used wholeheartedly by the overly active media to spread lies about guns, and their owners. If our media reflected how the average gun owner really was, instead of a drunked up redneck shooting at roadsigns, and each other, maybe the perception of the uninformed, read average, American would change.
     
  6. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

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    If our media reflected how the average gun owner really was, instead of a drunked up redneck shooting at roadsigns, and each other, maybe the perception of the uninformed, read average, American would change.


    ah, but you are asking for pigs to flap their wings and fly. Trouble is, today's "media" have been bought and paid for by certain factions in whose best interest the disarming of the American populace lies. Thus, how likely is it the "media" will be "fair and honest"? Right.. not very. Follow the money, as usual.
     
  7. solowars

    solowars Lake oswego New Member

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    All anti gun people are anti Americans and should be sent to a island like we did with Australia.
    I myself will never see the day they take our guns, due to the fact im am a very strong believer in our amendments and i will have to be cold and dead before they get any guns of mine.

    Next they will tell us we can only have one kid, and we have to wear identifying badges like HITLER made the jews wear.
     
  8. capdek

    capdek Oregon Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    The KKK use "emotional" arguments to try and stereotype visible minorities and violate their rights, but most people clearly disavow their rhetoric. The anti-gun bigots try and stereotype gun owners and violate their rights. If we point out the parallels between the two groups, the emotional arguments behind the anti-gunners' rhetoric can be made irrelevant as well.
    Why should there be such a distinction in people's minds between a hate group like the KKK and the anti-gun bigots? The KKK today rarely resort to violence like they did years ago. They hold rallies just like the anti-gunners! One group targets people by race, the other by life-style and culture. In my mind, there is very little difference between these two groups. If we can just convince a majority of Americans to see this, then we can win the battle for good and freedom.
     
  9. sweetnsauer

    sweetnsauer Salem New Member

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    good call, extremists are extremists. Cut from the same cloth, just hating different things.

    Be nice if the today show would interview someone here instead of reporting on Rhiannas latest hairstyle.
     
  10. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

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    More likely will be forced injection of a grain-sized RFID chip, like are now used on pets and livestock (in livestock, things are getting round to these being FORCED upon the owners, no option, in some places). Most likely much of our "history" and "preferences" will be recorded thereon. Things such as "has purchased firearms", "has CCP", that sort of thing. Those things are so easy to insert, but quite the pain (literally and figuratively) to find and remove. With those things, we can be "scanned", identified, dossier'd, in an instant, from at least fifty feet distance. The technology is here already, and in use in some other applications. Some think its a matter of time before they're foisted on us all. They are now being recommended for "installation" in young children to "aid in location and recovery" when kidnapped. Duhh, how's about relaxing the arms restrictions so such perps might have second thoughts about nabbing a child?
     
  11. capdek

    capdek Oregon Gold Supporter Gold Supporter

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    The true meaning of freedom is respecting the rights of any individual to govern their own affairs and make their own choices in their pursuit of happiness so long as those choices don't violate the rights of another individual. It doesn't matter if the individual is white or black or brown or yellow, or the person believes in the teachings of Christianity or Judaism or Islam or Buddhism or Hinduism or Atheism, or the person is heterosexual or homosexual or bisexual, or a whole litany of other activities and beliefs that we may or may not choose to practice or agree with. A deep respect for freedom acknowledges that we are all free to make our own choices so long as we respect the rights of others when exercising our own rights. This is hard sometimes because we may feel very strongly that our particular point-of-view is the "right" point-of-view. But truly respecting freedom means rejecting this human frailty. It means that no one person or no one group should ever "force" their views on others. This is what we - as gun owners - ask of others, and we cannot ask less of ourselves. It is what the founding fathers believed in, and it forms the cornerstone of our great Constitution!
    Sorry for sounding off, but this seems so important - especially today when so many in power have forgotten the real meaning of freedom and their oath to our great Constitution.
     
  12. SkatterBraynd

    SkatterBraynd West Wash Co. New Member

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    It is ironic that it took brave men and women and GUNS to stand up to oppression and a govt. controlling their lives ultimately forming a union with "unalienable rights" thus giving these bleeding heart liberals rights in which they abuse, namely the 1st amendment, in order to take away rights of honest citizens to own a gun, the 2nd amendment.
     
  13. solowars

    solowars Lake oswego New Member

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    :paranoid:Ahhh i need more guns and ammo:paranoid::p:p:p

    No chip for me or the dog(LEMME BOOZE)

    m_47ebd3bc4ab6a8f7f03d55db0cc4adac.jpg
     
  14. Abe Froman

    Abe Froman West of Salem Active Member

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    Hows about some real punishment also. A good whipping or something.
     
  15. tionico

    tionico Thurston County Well-Known Member

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    not a bad idea, but remember the horrendous outcry when the punk Yankee kid was sentenced to caning for vandalising cars in Indonesia..... you'd a thunk they wuz a goin ta cut off his right hand, er summat lak...... yet, with such public embarrassment the likely penalty for the locals, the incidence of such petty vandalism is near nil in that nation. AND, it is safe for women and children to walk on the streets of their neighbourhoods at night with no fear of attack. Such can be life in a place where there are unpleasant consequences for breach of the peace or private property.

    I loved the statistics in, where was it, Arizona, when the governor decided to dress all the prisoners in PINK jumpsuits, place them in tent cities, NO TV, NO computer, NO internet, NO weight rooms or university degrees. And, they had to WORK.... at times, hard physical work. The food was "institutional" food.. healthy and not much more. As in basic, bland, but substantial. The crime rate in that state fell through a DEEP hole in the floor within a year. NO ONE wanted to submit to THAT level of humiliation. Best way to not was "keep yer nose clean, bruthah". It is still working, last I heard. Forty nine states and the District of Columbia to go....... not a bad start.
     
  16. Abe Froman

    Abe Froman West of Salem Active Member

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    Its too bad our country as a whole is so happy to protect the civil rights of people who violate other peoples rights.