Good guy with a gun stops bad guy with a gun, gets killed by police

[GripItAndRipIt]

I think it's pretty clear that a cop killed our hero

But you are speculating as to the circumstances surrounding this tragic event without direct evidence. Noted you have no direct evidence.

 

[billdeserthills]

But you are speculating as to the circumstances surrounding this tragic event without direct evidence. Noted you have no direct evidence.

I'm sure all the answers will come out, maybe it'll take years--IDK how long the police evidence can be suppressed--perhaps you should refer to the title of this discussion for better evidence...

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Only reason I carry is because the last time I was beaten & robbed. I called the police afterwards and they refused to take my report, laughed at me & hung up. Obviously I need the tools to defend myself, since the cops have let me down

Sure hope I can keep on walking away from the next mass shooting I come across

Just wanted to note you've also just contradicted yourself here. If the only reason you carry -- as you state above -- is your own self defense, then you should reasonably be expected to walk away from the next "mass shooting you come across." Sounds like you have more reasons for carrying than your own self defense.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I'm sure all the answers will come out, maybe it'll take years--IDK how long the police evidence can be suppressed

OK, at least you acknowledge you are speculating with no direct evidence. I'll give you the last word now. Cheers...

 

[billdeserthills]

Just wanted to note you've also just contradicted yourself here. If the only reason you carry -- as you state above -- is your own self defense, then you should reasonably be expected to walk away from the next "mass shooting you come across." Sounds like you have more reasons for carrying than your own self defense.

Guess you never heard of a 'good guy with a gun' said 'good guy' is somewhat expected to lend aid to others--unfortunately for those others, I never signed up to have a cop kill me after putting myself in harms was to help another.

 

[billdeserthills]

OK, at least you acknowledge you are speculating with no direct evidence. I'll give you the last word now. Cheers...

I think there's plenty enough evidence to go around

MSN

www.msn.com

Maybe you could try reading the story for yourself

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

So the good Samaritan was holding the dead guy's AR-15 when the responding cops arrived? What the hell was he thinking?

Lack of training. Sad, because I know the guy was trying to do the right thing. Probably saved some lives. But could have handled the situation a lot better. Sad he had to pay with his life for this valuable lesson.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Guess you never heard of a 'good guy with a gun' said 'good guy' is somewhat expected to lend aid to others--unfortunately for those others, I never signed up to have a cop kill me after putting myself in harms was to help another.

So which statement of yours was wrong? That the ONLY REASON YOU CARRY is that you were beat up and the cops laughed at you and you need to take care of yourself? Or that you feel it is your obligation to be a vigilante/hero?

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

I think there's plenty enough evidence to go around

MSN

www.msn.com

You have stated the cop should have given our hero a warning. How do you know he didn't?

See: Evidence.

Maybe you could try reading the story for yourself

LOL. No need to get snarky here. After reading the story, I was left with many questions -- specifically what precisely happened in the seconds preceding the officer's discharge of his weapon at the civilian holding the AR-15? Until we can conclusively answer that question, there is actually not "plenty enough evidence." Rational objective observers have to acknowledge any further analysis of this tragedy is merely speculation without that conclusive evidence.

 

[billdeserthills]

So which statement of yours was wrong? That the ONLY REASON YOU CARRY is that you were beat up and the cops laughed at you and you need to take care of yourself? Or that you feel it is your obligation to be a vigilante/hero?

You have stated the cop should have given our hero a warning. How do you know he didn't?

See: Evidence.

LOL. No need to get snarky here. After reading the story, I was left with many questions -- specifically what precisely happened in the seconds preceding the officer's discharge of his weapon at the civilian holding the AR-15? Until we can conclusively answer that question, there is actually not "plenty enough evidence." Rational objective observers have to acknowledge any further analysis of this tragedy is merely speculation without that conclusive evidence.

Obviously our hero was offed by a cop, after saving the day & G-d only knows how many lives & that's all I need to know

 

[billdeserthills]

So which statement of yours was wrong? That the ONLY REASON YOU CARRY is that you were beat up and the cops laughed at you and you need to take care of yourself? Or that you feel it is your obligation to be a vigilante/hero?

I began carrying a gun due to the robbing & beating I took. However I would like to believe that a good guy with a gun has a duty to look out for his fellow citizens--Of course now I will hafta stop and think whether helping the public is as important as being cruelly murdered by a cop as a fricken 'thank you' for saving the public/other cops

 

[WillametteWill]

Police are killing Americans at a record pace

Ok, I'll play for a moment. Do you think conditions like 800% increases in homicides in Portland and massive increases in violence in larger cities across the country might lead to officers confronting more dangerous criminals? Oh, wait, nevermind, you say do are not able to answer questions. Nearly always police are shooting threatening criminals.

This one is literally just (cherry picked by leftists who hate cops) numbers, numbers are hard to argue with. But I'm sure that won't stop you

There, fixed it for you. I looked up the definition of troll in Urban Dictionary.
Troll: Someone who spews links to biased, sketchy websites but refuses to look at any data from others.
Sound familiar? (Okay, perhaps this is my own definition)
Way back on page one I posted a link to where that information originates. They pulled this information from a Wiki page AND OMMITTED THE 32 COUNTRIES WITH POLICE KILLING RATES HIGHER THAN THE US. Keep in mind you are using research from articles that use Wiki as a resource. Articles. Wow, let that sink in.

Like I said numbers are hard to argue with, but I knew you would try.

Not really when the "numbers" are actually biased lies that anyone with a teaspoon of intellectual honesty should possess. (After washing my cat I asked her and she understood the difference.) Fortunately on this forum just because you repeat something that is false over and over, it doesn't become true.

 

[American123]

We can debate the finer points of the cause of death. Regardless of what his poor mother said at his sentencing, Derek Chauvin was a bully and a bad cop. His actions on that day were punitive and out of policy. He's got 22.5 years now to think about that.

Conviction was more political and race based in nature than actually based on facts of the case, it definitely didn't meet any definition of murder, and he did society a favor, but yes, he is paying for it.

 

[No_Regerts]

Know your target.

Yep. Guys standing over bodies with a rifle during an active shooter situation. Unless dispatch calls reflect otherwise, the totality of circumstances are just that. The shooting would be objectively reasonable. Same as when an unmarked officer is shot, whoever shot him will get acquitted.

 

[bbbass]

I'm not OK with police killing because they can get away with it.
@bbbass

Not just “a few bad apples”: U.S. police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Police violence is a systemic problem in the U.S., not simply incidental, and it happens on a scale far greater than other wealthy nations.

www.prisonpolicy.org

Prison Policy Initiative.... Really?

1. Their own footnote admits that their data is worthless due to the many factors not considered and that no conclusions can be drawn from the data and the chart. (Very useful... LOL)

2. Prison Policy (let's call it PPI) believes/claims that there are too many people in prison. Esp POC, therefore, they conclude, something must be wrong with the justice system.

3. If the chart can be believed, and I don't trust them nor their sources, the conclusion that I would draw is that there are too many violent criminals in the USA.

I see now why you think the way you do.... input from sources like PPI. If I tended to an anti-cop bias and was exposed to that kind of info, I might be easily fooled too!

Here's an alternative for you, this is by WorldPopulationReview, hardly a right-wing USA source:

2019 police caused deaths (I refuse to call them killings) per 10million

The following countries have the highest numbers of police killings in the world, based on the most recent data available:

1. Brazil – 6,160
2. Venezuela – 5,287
3. Philippines – 3,451
4. India - 1,731
5. Syria – 1,497
6. United States – 1,099
7. Nigeria – 841
8. El Salvador - 609
9. Afghanistan – 606
10. Pakistan – 495

Brazil has the highest number of police killings at 6,160, nearly six times that of the United States.

Here are the 10 countries with the most police killings:

1. Venezuela (1632.70)
2. El Salvador (954.50)
3. Syria (831.60)
4. Philippines (542.90)
5. Nicaragua (522.70)
6. Palestine (508.00)
7. Jamaica (472.70)
8. Trinidad And Tobago (339.70)
9. Brazil (293.20)
10. Bahamas (275.70)

ttps://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/police-killings-by-country

This info does NOT square with that provided by the politicized group that you cite. I know this, because I have debunked a similar claim in the past. And what I found then was that Brazil had the highest rate for the year claimed in your citation.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Conviction was more political and race based in nature than actually based on facts of the case, it definitely didn't meet any definition of murder, and he did society a favor, but yes, he is paying for it.

I see. Some conspiracy there in the jury? Maybe George Soros got to them? "Vee know vhere your children go to der schkool!"

I suppose if the defense team can articulate malfeasance in the trial, he can file an appeal. I'm no medical expert -- and I assume you aren't either -- but it's hard to imagine 9-1/2 minutes of pressure on the main artery feeding oxygen to the brain not at least contributing to your fellow citizen's globally-televised demise. Medical expert opinions I've read state that after four minutes with no oxygen, the brain will start shutting down other organs to keep itself alive. Once Officer Chauvin gained Mr. Floyd's compliance (like a minute into the film), they should have cuffed him and stuffed him. And taken him straight to HCMC for treatment. Any force used by a LEO beyond that which is required to gain compliance of a resisting subject is excessive, out of policy, and in some cases -- like this one -- criminal.

I've said my piece. You can have the last word on this one.

 

[billdeserthills]

I'm not seeing the outrage here, seems to me too many people find a cop killing a hero to be just another day & that pisses me off

 

[bbbass]

I'm not OK with police killing because they can get away with it.

And others are???

 

[Member 53328]

Yep. Guys standing over bodies with a rifle during an active shooter situation. Unless dispatch calls reflect otherwise, the totality of circumstances are just that. The shooting would be objectively reasonable. Same as when an unmarked officer is shot, whoever shot him will get acquitted.

That would require someone to understand the definition of OBJECTIVE vs SUBJECTIVE. Which a few here simply can't wrap their mind around. Facts over feelings.

 

[bbbass]

@bbbass


https://www.northjersey.com/story/o...cludes-police-shootings-heres-why/7327820002/

An "OPINION" piece looking strictly at the number of people that needed killing w/o consideration of the reason for the use of deadly force.

Yet, as I mentioned, Grand Juries repeatedly investigate all OIS and do not come to the conclusion that it is the OFFICERs that were at fault.

Simplistic viewpoints are not very useful in evaluating the cause of these incidents, which in reality is criminal activity on the part of the person that was shot.

Your efforts to paint LE as trigger happy are weak and pathetic and easily debunked.