Good guy with a gun stops bad guy with a gun, gets killed by police

[bkroger86]

Nightmare scenario. Police are lighting it up out there. Y'all with CHLs better stay clear of the boys in blue:

Good Samaritan who died in Arvada shooting was shot by police, according to sources

The Good Samaritan who died in Monday’s shooting in Olde Town Arvada was shot and killed by a police bullet, Denver7 Chief Investigator Tony Kovaleski has confirmed through three informed, ranking sources — including two law enforcement sources.

www.thedenverchannel.com

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[Member 53328]

People are far from perfect. That includes LEO. When your showing up to a scene on limited information you have to make a split decision. Sometimes that decision is wrong. I will wait to hear more facts until I cast judgment and play into the narrative that cops are trigger happy murders.

 

[L84Cabo]

This is a horrible situation for all involved.

It is, however, a good reminder to all of us who carry. If you decide to intervene in a situation or even if you are defending yourself or your family from a shooter...you MUST take care when responding officers arrive on scene and/or be aware of other possible CCW holders who you may a) mistakenly perceive as a threat or b) who may mistakenly perceive you as a threat.

Be careful out there!

And may the odds be ever in your favor!

 

[billdeserthills]

People are far from perfect. That includes LEO. When your showing up to a scene on limited information you have to make a split decision. Sometimes that decision is wrong. I will wait to hear more facts until I cast judgment and play into the narrative that cops are trigger happy murders.

Not just 'a few bad apples': US police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Not just “a few bad apples”: U.S. police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Police violence is a systemic problem in the U.S., not simply incidental, and it happens on a scale far greater than other wealthy nations.

www.prisonpolicy.org

 

[Alexx1401]

Not just 'a few bad apples': US police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Not just “a few bad apples”: U.S. police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Police violence is a systemic problem in the U.S., not simply incidental, and it happens on a scale far greater than other wealthy nations.

www.prisonpolicy.org

And here is a GREAT example of using stats for propaganda. From the propaganda:

There is no question that the number of police killings of civilians in the U.S. – who are disproportionately Black and other people of color – are the result of policies and practices that enable and even encourage police violence. Compared to police in other wealthy democracies, American police kill civilians at incredibly high rates:
Really? And of course NONE of these people of color are shooting at the Cops. They are all on their way to college when some Cop sees them, jumps from their car to shoot them because it's fun.

 

[No_Regerts]

Not just 'a few bad apples': US police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Not just “a few bad apples”: U.S. police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Police violence is a systemic problem in the U.S., not simply incidental, and it happens on a scale far greater than other wealthy nations.

www.prisonpolicy.org

There's that part at the bottom that talks about how factors such as gun ownership per capita aren't considered. The fact is, there are also some stark cultural differences in the US vs other nations as well. Some of those differences explain why contacts turn violent. For example, Canada has experienced 133 line-of-duty deaths of police officers....since 1961. That would be a great YEAR in the US. Deaths by firearm exceeds Canada's total every three years.

 

[WillametteWill]

Starting with the important lessons, those of us who carry firearms for protection owe it to ourselves to spend as much time thinking about, researching and training for all the aspects of defensive gun use other than the "shooting" part. Unfortunately few do. Disclaimer, some of you know I'm a zealot about this. If one doesn't give much thought about what to do you a defender will be at a massive disadvantage in these situation. It is a perishable skill as well; one can't just think about it once or a an article or two and call it good.

In this particular case I obviously know none of the details or training history of this individual so I'm absolutely passing no judgement, just looking at learning opportunities for myself and those I teach and influence. Books and training from Andrew Branca, Massad Ayoob and others are a good beginning. I also watch plenty of resources that don't necessarily align with my thinking on this just for the perspective. Lessons for us all.

And on that note:

Nightmare scenario. Police are lighting it up out there. Y'all with CHLs better stay clear of the boys in blue:

Not just 'a few bad apples': US police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

With respect and while being excellent to all, this is not helpful and disingenuous. As @Alexx1401 and @No_Regerts point out, this, and nearly everything else in the MSM, are anti-police hit pieces. Let's provide a little perspective shall we. The chart in the link shows all these other countries with lower rates of police killings (by the way, they omit EVERY other country with higher rates, check the socialist haven of Venezuela with a per capita rate of police killings of 64 times that of the US). Compare some apples to apples, Mexico's rate is about the same as the US. Nearly every article on the internet I found uses these incomplete and misleading data.

Let's take the UK as another example. Their population is about one fifth that of the US. So they should have about one fifth the number of officer killed annually correct? According to wiki, the UK has averaged one, that's right one officer death per year for the past ten years. (Statistics are very difficult to find since with all the search engines when you search for officers killed in other countries nearly every result is for people killed by officers, surprised by this skewing of search results? Not me.) So by using this information in the US we should only have five officer death per year. We reached five this year (only looking at assaults on officers) by January 18. Five officers died by all causes here by January 3rd. The UK doesn't have well armed thugs in Baltimore, Chicago, Houston and yes, even Portland.

Stating officers are "lighting it up out there" when in fact a majority of those who concealed carry both support and are supported by law enforcement isn't really accurate or helpful. Respectfully.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Unfortunately media manipulation works at giving an opinion instead of news. They do that to get the public to think the way they are told to think.
In my world I wait for all the news I can get before I form an opinion in most cases. Just sometimes the outrage of the story is too much to hold back.

 

[bbbass]

@Joe Link .....

Can we not extend the "Be excellent" rule to cop bashing?

I'm so tired of this foolishness of people falling for the drumbeat of the narrative against LE.

Since I can't be calm and civil in response to this outrageousness, I will let cooler heads rebut.

IGNORE!!!

 

[Longwalkhome]

@Joe Link .....

Can we not extend the "Be excellent" rule to cop bashing?

I'm so tired of this foolishness of people falling for the drumbeat of the narrative against LE.

Since I can't be calm and civil in response to this outrageousness, I will let cooler heads rebut.

IGNORE!!!

Wish I could like that a 100 times.

 

[Knobgoblin]

Starting with the important lessons, those of us who carry firearms for protection owe it to ourselves to spend as much time thinking about, researching and training for all the aspects of defensive gun use other than the "shooting" part. Unfortunately few do. Disclaimer, some of you know I'm a zealot about this. If one doesn't give much thought about what to do you a defender will be at a massive disadvantage in these situation. It is a perishable skill as well; one can't just think about it once or a an article or two and call it good.

In this particular case I obviously know none of the details or training history of this individual so I'm absolutely passing no judgement, just looking at learning opportunities for myself and those I teach and influence. Books and training from Andrew Branca, Massad Ayoob and others are a good beginning. I also watch plenty of resources that don't necessarily align with my thinking on this just for the perspective. Lessons for us all.

And on that note:



With respect and while being excellent to all, this is not helpful and disingenuous. As @Alexx1401 and @No_Regerts point out, this, and nearly everything else in the MSM, are anti-police hit pieces. Let's provide a little perspective shall we. The chart in the link shows all these other countries with lower rates of police killings (by the way, they omit EVERY other country with higher rates, check the socialist haven of Venezuela with a per capita rate of police killings of 64 times that of the US). Compare some apples to apples, Mexico's rate is about the same as the US. Nearly every article on the internet I found uses these incomplete and misleading data.

Let's take the UK as another example. Their population is about one fifth that of the US. So they should have about one fifth the number of officer killed annually correct? According to wiki, the UK has averaged one, that's right one officer death per year for the past ten years. (Statistics are very difficult to find since with all the search engines when you search for officers killed in other countries nearly every result is for people killed by officers, surprised by this skewing of search results? Not me.) So by using this information in the US we should only have five officer death per year. We reached five this year (only looking at assaults on officers) by January 18. Five officers died by all causes here by January 3rd. The UK doesn't have well armed thugs in Baltimore, Chicago, Houston and yes, even Portland.

Stating officers are "lighting it up out there" when in fact a majority of those who concealed carry both support and are supported by law enforcement isn't really accurate or helpful. Respectfully.

Those are rookie numbers.

 

[Member 53328]

Not just 'a few bad apples': US police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Not just “a few bad apples”: U.S. police kill civilians at much higher rates than other countries

Police violence is a systemic problem in the U.S., not simply incidental, and it happens on a scale far greater than other wealthy nations.

www.prisonpolicy.org

I don't believe you have a concept of this reality. But keep watching the news.

 

[The Quiet Man]

I often listen to law enforcement on scanners, and recall a particular conversation I heard between a detective and dispatcher that made a significant impact on my thinking as a concealed carrier. (Detectives are on different talk groups than uniform squad cars)

A call came in that two juveniles were walking with rifles near the school in the small town closest to our home. (It turned out to be a couple of young teens with BB guns but the responding officers did not know that at the time) A Washington County SO detective was close by and told the dispatcher he would respond but to please tell the responding "uniforms" that he was in civilian clothing (he described his appearance) and would be on scene when they arrived. The important part of the conversation for me was, "Tell them to please not shoot me when they arrive."

It was a wise thing to understand and request, and something that has stuck with me. Holding a firearm when officers arrive at a potentially dangerous location is not a good thing for anyone. Wise law enforcement officers understand it and so should armed civilians.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Nightmare scenario. Police are lighting it up out there. Y'all with CHLs better stay clear of the boys in blue:

Good Samaritan who died in Arvada shooting was shot by police, according to sources

The Good Samaritan who died in Monday’s shooting in Olde Town Arvada was shot and killed by a police bullet, Denver7 Chief Investigator Tony Kovaleski has confirmed through three informed, ranking sources — including two law enforcement sources.

www.thedenverchannel.com

Sad story. Guy inserted himself into a situation he shouldn't have.

 

[Longwalkhome]

Many years ago I was in a small gunshop lusting over guns when the front door opened and three cops were pointing guns at me. Cop in the middle had a shotgun and on either side they had handguns. In the WTF moment the owner started yelling its ok guys its ok.

Owners kid was playing at his desk in the back room and hit the silent alarm. I doubt I would be alive today if I had a gun in my hand as I turned around.

Never went back to that shop.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Many years ago I was in a small gunshop lusting over guns when the front door opened and three cops were pointing guns at me. Cop in the middle had a shotgun and on either side they had handguns. In the WTF moment the owner started yelling its ok guys its ok.

Owners kid was playing at his desk in the back room and hit the silent alarm. I doubt I would be alive today if I had a gun in my hand as I turned around.

Never went back to that shop.

I hope they paid your dry cleaning bill. I assume you bubblegummed your pants. I mean I sure would have. Glad it all worked out for you.

 

[billdeserthills]

I don't believe you have a concept of this reality. But keep watching the news.

View attachment 981128

Are you saying the report is false or just that you like cops so much you'd let them kill all the unarmed, innocent civilians they wanna?

 

[Member 53328]

Are you saying the report is false or just that you like cops so much you'd let them kill all the unarmed, innocent civilians they wanna?

I'm not going to to play this game with you. It's not worth my time nor my energy. If someone else wants to by all means.

 

[GripItAndRipIt]

Yunno, as much as I want to commend the good samaritan, my training contraindicates his actions. I carry to defend my loved ones, my person, and my property, and in that order. Intervening in a violent event in process is extremely dangerous, as this poor fellow learned. I wasn't there -- thankfully -- and out of respect for the dead citizen am loathe to armchair quarterback this one, but based on my training, I would fall back, call 911, identify myself and let them know I am armed and I will defend myself if I feel threatened by the bad guy. Then get to a safe distance and let the cops know I am available as a witness.

Even if you act with the best intentions, the moment you raise your muzzle to ready and discharge a round, you become a party to the event rather than merely an observer. You are putting yourself and every single thing you are in this world at extreme risk by inserting yourself into such a situation.

 

[Longwalkhome]

I hope they paid your dry cleaning bill. I assume you bubblegummed your pants. I mean I sure would have. Glad it all worked out for you.

Actually after the WTF moment I was very angry . It wasn't the cops fault, the store owner was an idiot.