Gold?

[trainsktg]

How can it have investment value when it costs a lot more to make than real gold costs, and an expert can tell it from real?

Like synthetic diamonds, it has industrial use, but synthetic diamonds are dirt cheap and have really helped industry in cutting and polishing operations. They have found a big niche in costume jewelry because they are so cheap.

Synthetic gold isn't used that way because you can buy real gold in larger quantities and it's cheaper to buy and use. It, like synthetic diamonds, can be distinguished from the real thing.

??

I think you misread my intent this time. In the here and now, synthetic gold is not economically viable and there is no danger of it driving real gold to zero worth. I am in agreement with your quoted statement.

Keith

 

[Martini_Up]

We had a gold standard during the great depression so a return to it does't magically make everything better and in fact comes with a different set of problems.

 

[Trlsmn]

We had a gold standard during the great depression so a return to it does't magically make everything better and in fact comes with a different set of problems.

Ding, ding, ding we have a winner. If the annual world production of gold is 50 million ounces and the world population is 7 billion the simple math says a world gold standard would allow approx .0071 of an ounce per person per year. That's about $10.65 per person per year.

Sure paper money is based on faith and that is the only thing keeping it from being worthless but Gold wont work either, at this point it's just a good investment storage device but as a medium of exchange after currency fails? dream on!

Gold would only be worth something in a society that hasn't fallen to pieces so you have a paradox.

 

[Sasquatchvnv]

Buy silver now. Buy physical silver you can hold in your hand. J.P. Morgan has manipulated the market so badly, that if we all buy only one ounce of silver each, they are hosed. They crash. Too big to fail my achin' fanny. After all the crap they've pulled over the last few years, it would truly do my heart good to see a little bit of justice. So please do your part - buy whatever silver you can. Not only do you protect the buying power of whatever little bit of cash they've let you keep, it's good for you, and it just might make a difference in the world.

 

[spengo]

I think I'm going to buy up lots and lots of gold, then nuke Fort Knox and make all the gold there radioactive. No one will see it coming.

brb looking for a team of sexy women pilots and a crazy korean who throws hats at people.

 

[Just Jim]

So is there anyone here that when the SHTF they will trade their food for gold??

jj

 

[Gunner3456]

So is there anyone here that when the SHTF they will trade their food for gold??

jj

jj, you keep missing the point. You are right - you can't eat gold and if the SHTF it won't do you any good.

Gold is for right now to store a larger amount of wealth in a small place when you don't trust paper. It is also to conserve your wealth if you make it to the other side of a SHTF situation.

It's not for during a SHTF situation. You currently have gold only after you have food, guns, shelter, etc. etc. for an extended period.

Gold is for your surplus because the day is coming when paper will be worthless.

Cliff

 

[Andy]

Well said Gunner.

 

[Just Jim]

jj, you keep missing the point. You are right - you can't eat gold and if the SHTF it won't do you any good.

Gold is for right now to store a larger amount of wealth in a small place when you don't trust paper. It is also to conserve your wealth if you make it to the other side of a SHTF situation.

It's not for during a SHTF situation. You currently have gold only after you have food, guns, shelter, etc. etc. for an extended period.

Gold is for your surplus because the day is coming when paper will be worthless.

Cliff

No sense in trying to get you to understand by asking the simple question I did but let me expand on it a little. In a SHTF who would take gold for anything? Nobody knows if the gold is real. It's just a shining piece of metal that has no real use. Just like paper, somebody says it has value and so you go with the flow.

Would I trade a bag of fertilizer for gold? Not likely. Gold is considered money when money is no good. When money is no good then we have barter for what we need. How many people do you know that can tell if a coin is real gold all the way through? Even the banks have been defrauded by phoney gold bars.

Gold is being sold as protection against the falling dollar value. You can't walk into a groceries store and buy anything with it as no clerk even knows what gold is real. So you got to trade your gold for paper that is worthless but people know what paper is so they will take it now.

Paper becomes worthless then what can you change your gold into for people to take it?

Rather than hoardeing gold with the hopes that it may be worth something my opinion is to take that extra wealth and turn it into a trade that can bring barter to you.

Myself I won't ever take gold in a SHTF or after it.

jj

 

[Just Jim]

Funny thing about prices, like the price of gold. Last gold rush we had gold went up near $900 an ounce before it fell to like $400. If you sold when it was $900 then you made money but if you got caught with it then you lost money (depending on what you bought and sold for)

Say you were a smart feller and bought at $700 on this run up. It got up to $1400 and if you sold you made $700. If you didn't sell then you got gold worth about $1350 today. What could you buy for that money that would hold it's value? When paper crashes so does the price of gold. How many guys can you take your gold to right now and sell it? After the dollar crashes what will they give you for it?

jj

 

[Gunner3456]

No sense in trying to get you to understand by asking the simple question I did but let me expand on it a little. In a SHTF who would take gold for anything? Nobody knows if the gold is real. It's just a shining piece of metal that has no real use. Just like paper, somebody says it has value and so you go with the flow.

Would I trade a bag of fertilizer for gold? Not likely. Gold is considered money when money is no good. When money is no good then we have barter for what we need. How many people do you know that can tell if a coin is real gold all the way through? Even the banks have been defrauded by phoney gold bars.

Gold is being sold as protection against the falling dollar value. You can't walk into a groceries store and buy anything with it as no clerk even knows what gold is real. So you got to trade your gold for paper that is worthless but people know what paper is so they will take it now.

Paper becomes worthless then what can you change your gold into for people to take it?

Rather than hoardeing gold with the hopes that it may be worth something my opinion is to take that extra wealth and turn it into a trade that can bring barter to you.

Myself I won't ever take gold in a SHTF or after it.

jj

jj, you just keep missing and missing and missing the point. Did you even read my post?

I agreed that gold is no good in a SHTF. We're together on that.

However, if I already have everything I can want for SHTF including food, weapons, water, etc. etc. and $10 million in cash left, what would you have me do with that money? Leave it in the bank which will collapse? Put it under the mattress in what-are-to-become worthless greenbacks? Buy paper stocks? Buy what will become (at the very least by inflation) worthless treasuries?

Where do I put it - how can I do my best to preserve it in case I make it to the other side of the SHTF?

I say gold and silver. When some semblance of order comes back, thousands of years of history say that the gold and silver will have some real value.

It's the only bet out there.

Cliff

 

[korntera]

I noticed earlier in the thread that somebody brought up Ben Stein because I just saw him speak in Seattle today. He brought up an excellent point that he heard about 6 months ago while having a conversation with Warren Buffet. Mr Buffet said, if you put all the gold mined in the ENTIRE world it would be a cube about 67 on all sides... With the value of this gold you could buy all the farm land in America and Exxon Mobile and many of the large cap companies. Which do you think can produce more wealth and products? The latter or the gold?

In other words I beleive gold is incredibly overinflated due to many people like you that think it will never stop going up. I may be wrong and may miss out on huge returns but I will also miss out on the huge losses that I expect in the mid term(not short term). Just my two cents feel free to disagree but I am betting with Warren Buffet.

 

[Gunner3456]

I noticed earlier in the thread that somebody brought up Ben Stein because I just saw him speak in Seattle today. He brought up an excellent point that he heard about 6 months ago while having a conversation with Warren Buffet. Mr Buffet said, if you put all the gold mined in the ENTIRE world it would be a cube about 67 on all sides... With the value of this gold you could buy all the farm land in America and Exxon Mobile and many of the large cap companies. Which do you think can produce more wealth and products? The latter or the gold?

In other words I beleive gold is incredibly overinflated due to many people like you that think it will never stop going up. I may be wrong and may miss out on huge returns but I will also miss out on the huge losses that I expect in the mid term(not short term). Just my two cents feel free to disagree but I am betting with Warren Buffet.

I don't believe that gold will keep going up. Did anyone mention buying it for speculation?

I believe that it will never be worth nothing, especially after and if we recover from a SHTF.

If Mr. Buffet wants to hold paper stock if the world collapses as we know it, go for it. His track record lately hasn't been so hot, largely because he has failed to see the various crashes coming in real estate paper, etc. His company Berkshire has lost a lot of money the past couple of years.

For me, gold is ONLY some place to park excess cash while I watch the dollar depreciate. (It's lost 17% of its value this year, internationally.)

With the Fed running the presses, inflation is inevitable. They just created another $600 bil in dollars out of thin air this month.

You put your excess money in dollars or dollar denominated paper, and I'll put mine in gold and we'll talk again in ten years.

Cliff

 

[Just Jim]

jj, you just keep missing and missing and missing the point. Did you even read my post?

I agreed that gold is no good in a SHTF. We're together on that.

However, if I already have everything I can want for SHTF including food, weapons, water, etc. etc. and $10 million in cash left, what would you have me do with that money? Leave it in the bank which will collapse? Put it under the mattress in what-are-to-become worthless greenbacks? Buy paper stocks? Buy what will become (at the very least by inflation) worthless treasuries?

Where do I put it - how can I do my best to preserve it in case I make it to the other side of the SHTF?

I say gold and silver. When some semblance of order comes back, thousands of years of history say that the gold and silver will have some real value.

It's the only bet out there.

Cliff

I think you have it wrong, I am not missing your point I just flatly dissagree with it I have not been sold the gold bug and believe that gold and silver won't bring the nation back. What will bring the nation back in my opinion will be the people making something of themselves they can barter to others.

I guess we will have to wait and see who comes out right on this



jj

 

[Gunner3456]

I think you have it wrong, I am not missing your point I just flatly dissagree with it I have not been sold the gold bug and believe that gold and silver won't bring the nation back. What will bring the nation back in my opinion will be the people making something of themselves they can barter to others.

I guess we will have to wait and see who comes out right on this



jj

Did anyone mention bringing the nation back? Did anyone say that gold would help with that?

I asked you where and how you would hide $10 million dollars in excess wealth during a SHTF in case you made it to the other side. You haven't begun to address that question.

In past collapses of countries, many times even homes and farms have been confiscated. Private ownership isn't allowed under many systems. See communism.

Maybe you just can't comprehend having wealth and trying to hide and preserve at least some of it.

6 million Jews died under Hitler. About another 6 million managed to escape. It was mostly the wealthy who could buy their way out, and often with gold.

Every SHTF situation can be different from the last.

Cliff

 

[Just Jim]

Did anyone mention bringing the nation back? Did anyone say that gold would help with that?

I asked you where and how you would hide $10 million dollars in excess wealth during a SHTF in case you made it to the other side. You haven't begun to address that question.

In past collapses of countries, many times even homes and farms have been confiscated. Private ownership isn't allowed under many systems. See communism.

Maybe you just can't comprehend having wealth and trying to hide and preserve at least some of it.

6 million Jews died under Hitler. About another 6 million managed to escape. It was mostly the wealthy who could buy their way out, and often with gold.

Every SHTF situation can be different from the last.

Cliff

Only a fellow who thought he was rich would be so concerned about preserving his wealth. Fact is gold can be confiscated just like any other property and has been in the past. Who you going to sell your 10,000000000000000 gizillion in gold to when it's illegal to own.

The Jews worked hard at hiding their wealth from the Germans but we have our own Nazis just like the German progressive socialist. If SHTF they will call in the gold and silver to back a new currency. You see they can't run a government without a currency, how would you pay taxes without government paper

If you have extra wealth you want to hide from an American collapse then buy another currency if you think it will work for you The fact as I see it is there is nothing safe with a corrupt administration like we have.

This shows you the history of corruption but not the full scope

Where are silver and gold going? History and current explained here.



"Maybe you just can't comprehend having wealth and trying to hide and preserve at least some of it."

The only real wealth I have ever had was the forty years with my wife before she died. Her death convinced me that there isn't much on the earth worth the worry about haveing .

jj

 

[EZLivin]

I've hesitated to jump in on this discussion because I didn't want to "talk my book." (Have successfully speculated and invested primarily in gold and silver exploration companies, junior mining companies, and bullion for the past 11 years.) Some comments:

Gold and silver are money, just as $US, $CA, $AU, etc., are money. To disregard gold, silver, and select other currencies, and to hold only the currency of one's own particular country is, in my opinion, foolish at this time in history.

Warren Buffett: Buffett specializes in value investing (disciple of Benjamin Graham). Currencies are not his thing. When he dissed gold he dissed, hands down, the single best investment of the last 10 years. He should keep quiet about things he knows nothing about.

SHTF: I get so *&#^$@% tired of hearing that gold/silver/currencies won't be worth anything during SHTF. When was the LAST time gold/silver/currencies were not a store of value? Answer: NOAH'S FLOOD! What is the chance of a worldwide cataclysmic event like Noah's Flood happening? Pretty dam**d small! I guess if one wants to invest based upon a repeat of the Flood (or similar) then go ahead, but I don't consider that a rational way of thinking. Much more likely is a country-based incident that causes one's own currency to implode, making gold/silver/other currencies wise to hold.

Confiscation: Some people say you shouldn't hold metals due to confiscation. Then why not hold some/all outside the US? It is perfectly legal. Everyone is different, but I sleep better at night knowing my wealth is securely stored in a country that has no history of confiscation. It is also the country my family would bug-out to should the situation here become untenable. Anytime I choose I can convert all or a portion of those assets to any currency on the planet. Seems like good insurance to me.

EZL

 

[Just Jim]

Thing about gold being an investment is you got to sell it to realize a profit. Just like stocks, if you buy low and sell high then you have done well but you better beat the crash if you want profit. Gold will crash just like it has done before. How long did it take to make a comeback from the last crash?

jj

 

[EZLivin]

History cycles between hard currencies and fiat currencies. It is up to the individual to determine where the currency they hold is on the time-line. Every fiat currency in history's past has gone to zero. Every gold-backed currency in history's past has disappeared (though the metals themselves have never gone to zero). People should not look at gold, silver, or foreign currencies as "investments" (though I often, incorrectly, use that term myself). They should look at gold/silver/foreign currencies as "money," the same way they look at the $US as "money." Money fluctuates in value against other money.

 

[Siglvr]

Thing about gold being an investment is you got to sell it to realize a profit. Just like stocks, if you buy low and sell high then you have done well but you better beat the crash if you want profit. Gold will crash just like it has done before. How long did it take to make a comeback from the last crash?

jj

No one is arguing different jj. I personally don't think it's a good investment at $1300 plus an oz either because you can dig it out of the ground for less, and the differences in price is speculation. Yet it could still run to over $5000 from here. No one knows. However, being averaged in at under $400 certainly makes him a smug son of a b*ch and makes you....what? Make your play and others will make theirs.

Say that he has the accumulated food stores next to gas masks and every SHTF items needed, he has $40,000 of an alternate currency account (FDIC insured denominated in Yuan), a fair sized Fidelity retirement account 60% US stocks, 40% foreign stocks and a fat regular bank account and dude has an additional $80,000 cash under his mattress or in his safe. The safe is also full of weapons and a bunch of ammo. If dude wants to put some in gold, so what? Why do you care? He bought $40,000 of gold back when it was under $400 and oz and a "bad" investment and now his 100 oz are worth over $130,000. There is a market for gold and there always has been since pre-history. You think that the US dollar's prospects are good from here on out? Jim Rodgers, George Soros and Warren Buffett are investing otherwise.

BTW, say also that the mans house is worth $500,000 and is paid off and he has 2 rental houses in case inflation hits. You keep reiterating over and over and over here that buying any gold is a bad idea. My question is this Jim: we should be taking investment advice from you because....?:huh: