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LOL, That is a great point.
I have bought a few 20 Mark gold coins from Lear over the past year (dated between 1888 and 1912). I've just checked the price and they are currently being sold at $345. They still have value, but not because of the now long defunct government's backing. They have value because of the gold in them. The old bank credits and paper bank notes from the same time period have been worth nothing for nearly 100 years.
In 1914 Germany went off the gold standard. Soon after their money went into the toilet. Granted, it had a lot to do with them fighting in WWI and other social upheavals of the time period. None the less, the major reason for getting off the gold standard was to finance the war and you cannot print gold, but you can print paper.
I have no idea how much buying power the 20 Mark coin had when it was in circulation, but I know that it still has quite a bit today.

Oh, and remember how I just wrote that the Germans went off the gold standard so that they could print money to finance a war? What nation can you think of that exists today, is not on the gold standard, is fighting wars and printing money as it it was confetti?

I am quite pleased to see others whom are aware and worried about this issue -- IMO, the single most pressing matter in regards to our national security. We are racking up debt at an astronomical rate, meanwhile we stretch our military too thin. I am deeply troubled by the number of people who "cheer lead" for the US's ill-conceived and ill-executed foreign mis-adventures that cost us our fine men and women in uniform, and the hard earned cash of the US tax payer. You can draw parallels to post WWI Germany, but you'd be much for accurate in comparing the US to the Roman Empire, past the time when Rome was, much like the US, a Republic. Well, of my soap box...

DJM
 
Lots of good info on here for me and other newbs as well. I have been checking out all the various sites many of you listed and I have to say there is soooooo much to learn. Let me ask a question if you were me or somebody on a limited budget and you were JUST STARTING out in this and only had a couple hundred a month to spend on this stuff what would you use it on knowing what you know now? Think I will just buy basic coins to start out with (dimes, nickels, and quarters).

I saw so many different coins on all those websites (silver) that I have never seen or even heard of before and it made me think that if and when I do have to use this (in a SHTF situation) would anybody else I am doing business with know what this stuff is or what it's worth?

Anyway my first question is more important to me... what would you buy with a few hundred bucks a month?
 
Lots of good info on here for me and other newbs as well. I have been checking out all the various sites many of you listed and I have to say there is soooooo much to learn. Let me ask a question if you were me or somebody on a limited budget and you were JUST STARTING out in this and only had a couple hundred a month to spend on this stuff what would you use it on knowing what you know now? Think I will just buy basic coins to start out with (dimes, nickels, and quarters).

I saw so many different coins on all those websites (silver) that I have never seen or even heard of before and it made me think that if and when I do have to use this (in a SHTF situation) would anybody else I am doing business with know what this stuff is or what it's worth?

Anyway my first question is more important to me... what would you buy with a few hundred bucks a month?


I would get yourself into a regular cycle of buying silver every month. As some folks have pointed out, pick up some of the pre-64 US coins which are 90% silver. I've done real well going to garage and estate sales. Managed to pick-up all sorts of 99.999 silver rounds and bars, some interesting sterling silver "art" bars and very cool silver coins from Africa and New Gueina. I've found lots of good "junk" silver US coins in this manner as well. Currently, gold is a bit to expensive for your budget, but I would not sweat that -- stick with silver.

Do not freak out when the price fluctuates. When the price goes down, buy MORE and ride it out. As long as this is not your only investment, then you should not worry if the market dips.

Best,
DJM
 
Anyway my first question is more important to me... what would you buy with a few hundred bucks a month?

I agree with djm68, just buy some every month, and don't sweat it.
If you're getting a tax return determine how much of it you're willing to commit to silver and do it.
Don't pay any more than fifty to seventy-five cents over spot, and watch out for fakes.
A good coin book will set you back $15.00 and describe diameter, weight and thickness.
Armed with this information a cheap digital scale and a caliper and you can weed out almost all fakes.
Pawn and coin shops that deal in metals are a good source as long as they aren't overcharging you on premiums.
I started out with $5.00 face value in dimes, quarters and halves and have built up from there.
And although the war nickels have some silver, I would encourage you to stick with dimes and up.
I bought some this week at $36.00 and was quite pleased to see $38 this morning!
 
As someone who has argued with many people that Gold is a good investment in the past and got into some gold early, and who just bailed out of stocks in my IRA account yesterday....I really have to do a change up pitch and say "be careful" out there.

Way back when in the day, everyone would tell you gold was a bad investment, it just sits there, doesn't move, and you are missing the interest of a bank account. Now, however, it is in total speculation mode, this is the land of Dutch Tulips and South Seas bubbles (google either one, they were sure fired winners). It's uncharted in many ways, if you stick $1440 into an ounce of Gold, you are hoping that some greater fool will come along and buy that for more money from you at some point. Yet the costs to extract that ounce are much much less than that. My brother just told me that he looked at Newmont Mining and their aggregate extraction costs was something like $255 an ounce. Thats what it costs them to get it out of the dirt.

Gold may go up from here. But it might dive as well. It's a speculative guessing game, so for anyone considering this move, I wouldn't use the money you are planning on buying the baby's shoes with:)

Regards to all
 
Billcoe brings up an important point: gold/silver should not be your only investment -- ou should always diversify your portfolio. However, there are few things going on at the moment that lead PMs to be a safe haven: the USD is being devalued like never before. Wall Street is rife with financial malfeasance -- there are few safe places for park your money and have it "work" for you. PMs get you around these problems.

Roughly 6 years ago I took $20k from one of my well performing stock portfolios. I bought gold for under $800 an ounce and I also bought some silver for roughly $20/ounce. Since then been buying a little silver every month.

The $20k has nearly doubled in value, while my stock portfolio took a roughly 45% hit. Note that my stock portfolio was quite diversified with large cap, small cap, emerging markets, etc; all these investments were with trusted names in the investment market.

Cheers,
DJM
 
........
Now, however, it is in total speculation mode, this is the land of Dutch Tulips and South Seas bubbles (google either one, they were sure fired winners). It's uncharted in many ways, if you stick $1440 into an ounce of Gold, you are hoping that some greater fool will come along and buy that for more money from you at some point. .........

Regards to all

We're not there yet. Not even close. I had a conversation with a friend at work about this very subject at lunch today. He's an older gentleman (old enough to retire) and someone with a fairly large circle of family and friends. I asked him how many people besides me and one of his sons he know that have bought any gold in the last couple of years. He knows of no one else. His son is rather well of and bought a brick sized bar a year ago, but I don't think has really been buying on regular basis, which is something that I have been doing.
Until many of the people that you know are buying precious metal, the talk of bubble is premature.

.. my 2 cents (real ones made out of copper).
 
The physical will continue to become harder to find, especially in desirable denominations and quantities. Demand for physical and eventual shortage of available for purchase material will continue to drive the price north of $50 at which point we may see a large sell off from individuals who think we've hit the top and they need to cash in. At that point we are likely see a good sized contraction as more material becomes available to the market. But I fully believe that we will continue to see PMs rise throughout the year and the next. As the dollar continues to lose value, PMs will just continue to climb. So you can scoff or you can obtain some for yourself. I do love hearing people tel me I'm stupid and that I shouldn't be buying at the top. I don't think we're anywhere near the top. I'm looking forward to seeing it play out, good or bad. Worst case scenario it will be worth half what I bought it for.
 
One must look at PMs as insurance, not investment. If yoou believe the $ will recover it's value and retain it' standing in the world, then you don't need insurance, but if you have as much faith as I do that our gov't will continue to destroy the $, BUY GOLD AND SILVER! If you are old enough to remember back to the mid 60's you remember that that silver quarter would buy a gal. of gas, and now that same quarter will buy you a gal. and a candy bar. I'm sure nearly everyone here thought that silver was expensive last month at $32, or last week at $34 and still think it's high at $37.50 it's at now, but will be trying to buy when it's $100 an oz because it "going to the moon". Buy now, sell when everyone else wants to buy.
 
If anyone is concerned that we are at a long-term top, read the short essay Sinclair posted on his site yesterday. Scroll down to "How and When, But More Importantly, Why?"

Welcome To Jim Sinclair's MineSet

btw... Those higher price levels mentioned at the beginning of the article are taken from Martin Armstrong's article (not from Jim Sinclair). Jim isn't giving price levels in his essay, but is only giving the "why" of things for those who are concerned that a top is developing now. Sinclair is one of the few people on this planet that I would never bet against.
 
That is what I heard when I loaded up on silver at $10. If given the choice between dollars with no intrinsic value, there is no comparison. Silver at $40 is by far the smarter choice.

Silver is superior to gold because:

1. There is the same amount of silver as there is gold above ground, same rarity.
2. Silver's price has been highly manipulated down via short selling by JP Morgan. Essentially they print little pieces of paper and call then silver, sell them; only there is 100x-300x more paper than silver; ie it is a Ponzi.
3. Silver will be more tradable, more easily used as barter.
4. It is less likely to be subject to some draconian law like gold confiscation.
5. The historic ratio of silver to gold is normally higher.
6. Silver has many uses in production. The above ground supply is being exhausted.

The melt value of silver is about $38 now, so generic plain coins are about $39-$40 a coin, large 100oz bars are about $3,850-$4000. I saw some sell on Ebay yesterday for $4,350.

I used to have a substantial amount of cash sitting in my checking account earning .08% interest. I solved that problem, and since then it is up well over 300%.

I thank Peter Schiff back in 2006 for convincing me to do the switch to real money. He was telling everyone in 2005-06 that a real estate collapse was coming along with a substantial recession and that the smartest investments were silver and foreign stocks. He was laughed at openly by all the 'news' programs at the time. Literally mocked and laughed at on the air. Silver at $10/ounce was way too high, was going nowhere, etc.

The truth is silver at $40 it still way low. It will probably be $80 this time next year or more. It isn't so much that silver and gold is going up. It is more that the dollar is on a downward slide to eventually $-0-. The dollar has already lost 94% of its value since 1913.

All paper currencies return to their intrinsic value historically; no exceptions. The intrinsic value of a dollar bill is $-0-. It is backed by nothing.

We went into an economic depression complete collapse in 2008. The reason people don't know that is the private Fed bank propped us up by printing trillions out of thin air.

The vast majority of those funds were given to the criminal banks on Wall St (owned by the same folks that control the Fed). QE1, QE2, etc, etc, will destroy the dollar via hyperinflation. It is coming. There is absolutely no way around it. The reason you don't hear that on TV is that the same corp/bankers own the five media conglomerates that control everything we see on TV, hear on radio. While Americans shudder in fear over some brown people 2500 miles away their real enemies are wearing $3k suits and robbing the Treasury.

All IRAs, savings, checking, mutual funds, stocks, etc will be wiped out or a fraction of their current value. Maybe a month from now, maybe ten years from now. It cannot be stopped.

The private cartel of bankers have printed more money since 2005 than the entire history of the nation dating back to 1776. The sub bank gets free money then charges the gullible folks 21% interest on a credit card. Al Capone never had it so good.

It is a done deal.

YouTube - Hyperinflation Nation Part 1/3
 
Money is just a medium of exchange. Just like any commodity, silver, stock, pork bellies, etc, it has a value. Speculating on that value can earn value to owner when sold. It is the grease that lubricates the barter system. 80% of our money stock is not even made by the feds (green backs). The value of money is that it is accepted in exchange for goods or services.


Let say, I bought 1000 gallons of gas in 1967 at 25 cents a gallon. Today it is worth about $3.50 per gallon. This can go for any goods or service. I doubt anyone here works for 1967 wages, (minimum was about $1.25/hour if memory is right).


The value of a IRA is the stocks not the money value. Same with silver it can fall or rise in value. It's value is not based on a money amount.

IMHO, the real value in keeping money or retained earnings/savings is working it. Buying antiques, guns, land, silver, gold, really does not matter if it gains in value for you. The difficulty is liquidity. So far money is 100% liquid and that is hard to beat.

Just as it is possible in a severe SHTF scenario, money may loose all value do to the lack of any existing market, that may hold true for gold, silver, etc. They are not a necessity for survival. What ever is a necessity of survival, will have value.

There are a number of investment schemes. Over a year ago, the Wall Street Journal mentioned acquiring firearms as part of a person investment plans. Reasonable diversification helps to minimize risk.

Problem with any investment, is what to invest in. Generally the greater the risk, the greater the pay off.

Like here is a person looking at adding to their investment or planing for the when the SHTF?
 
Money is just a medium of exchange. Just like any commodity, silver, stock, pork bellies, etc, it has a value. Speculating on that value can earn value to owner when sold. It is the grease that lubricates the barter system. 80% of our money stock is not even made by the feds (green backs). The value of money is that it is accepted in exchange for goods or services.


Let say, I bought 1000 gallons of gas in 1967 at 25 cents a gallon. Today it is worth about $3.50 per gallon. This can go for any goods or service. I doubt anyone here works for 1967 wages, (minimum was about $1.25/hour if memory is right).


The value of a IRA is the stocks not the money value. Same with silver it can fall or rise in value. It's value is not based on a money amount.

IMHO, the real value in keeping money or retained earnings/savings is working it. Buying antiques, guns, land, silver, gold, really does not matter if it gains in value for you. The difficulty is liquidity. So far money is 100% liquid and that is hard to beat.

Just as it is possible in a severe SHTF scenario, money may loose all value do to the lack of any existing market, that may hold true for gold, silver, etc. They are not a necessity for survival. What ever is a necessity of survival, will have value.
.....................

Thousands of years of human history says you are wrong. Read my previous entry on German Marks. That is just but one of the examples and I used it because a lot of people are familiar with it.
The problem with inflation or hyperinflation is not the wages you are working for today. It is the money that you have earned and saved have lost its value.
Even if you were able to invest in stocks or real estate and keep up with inflation you are still getting screwed, courtesy of the government. How? TAXES.
If you invested $1,000 and some time later that investment is worth $50,000, in the eyes of the government you have a profit of $49,000... even if all you did was keep up with inflation.
 
Just as it is possible in a severe SHTF scenario, money may loose all value do to the lack of any existing market

I'm not sure I understand your point in your entire post unless it is that as long as there is a market for something it will hold value. I disagree. The reason our Dollar will totally lose it's value has nothing to do with a lack of existing market. More than likely there will be a market for fiat money but only as a firestarter or packing material. The reason our Dollar will totally lose it's value is because it is fiat money. It is backed by nothing. Intrinsically, it holds the same value as monopoly money. Precious metal's level of intrinsic value can be debated, but the Dollar's cannot. Gold and silver could be worthless in a barter economy, but history does not show any indication of that. History does show that when a government collapses, their fiat money goes with them.

The Dollar is not like any commodity such as pork bellies or wheat as these hold an intrinsic value. They will do me some good when times get tough. A commodity's value is in the eye of the consumer.
 
Thousands of years of human history says you are wrong. Read my previous entry on German Marks. That is just but one of the examples and I used it because a lot of people are familiar with it.
The problem with inflation or hyperinflation is not the wages you are working for today. It is the money that you have earned and saved have lost its value.
Even if you were able to invest in stocks or real estate and keep up with inflation you are still getting screwed, courtesy of the government. How? TAXES.
If you invested $1,000 and some time later that investment is worth $50,000, in the eyes of the government you have a profit of $49,000... even if all you did was keep up with inflation.


Nope, ask the Donner's party members, ask frontiers person, ask Native Americans. For gold or silver to be a value it has do something for the buyer. In a worse case SHTF situation, survival will what determines value. As others has mentioned, food, firearms, medical supplies, skills, etc is what is needed. Once things things start to stabilize and a market starts to take shape, yes it can have an investment value, but no guarantees.

Inflation and all of that is a for a market economy. Taxes probably should apply to silver values too. If you own a business and bought $1,000 worth of silver and sold it for $50,000, guess what? You would also pay taxes on the $49,000 in gain. Part of the value of Silver is inflation, especially on globally traded commodities.
 
I'm not sure I understand your point in your entire post unless it is that as long as there is a market for something it will hold value. I disagree. The reason our Dollar will totally lose it's value has nothing to do with a lack of existing market. More than likely there will be a market for fiat money but only as a firestarter or packing material. The reason our Dollar will totally lose it's value is because it is fiat money. It is backed by nothing. Intrinsically, it holds the same value as monopoly money. Precious metal's level of intrinsic value can be debated, but the Dollar's cannot. Gold and silver could be worthless in a barter economy, but history does not show any indication of that. History does show that when a government collapses, their fiat money goes with them.

The Dollar is not like any commodity such as pork bellies or wheat as these hold an intrinsic value. They will do me some good when times get tough. A commodity's value is in the eye of the consumer.


Money needs not be backed. Again about 80% of our money stock is not green backs. What backs American dollar is the goods and services that it will buy. The dollar can be a green back, check, or credit card.

Also think of gold and silver as any other commodity. Ever though, you deal with this every day? I doubt very many people haul gold or silver around to buy gas, food, pay rent, pay utilities etc............. I bet most take their pay checks in checks, cash or electronic transfer.

To be clear, buy gold/silver, etc as a investment is up to the investor. In my view in a worse case SHTF situational, that is what I responding too, it would be almost as worthless as paper.

Ask yourself why is the metal precious? If those industries ceased to exist would it still be precious? Dollars is not a commodity (Unless someone is speculating on the dollar market) it is a medium of exchange. The value of a medium of exchange is that it's acceptance as medium of exchange. Money needs no value on it's own. If you want to argue that, pick up that 1 cent worth of plastic called a Visa Card and think about all that it does.
 
I'm not even sure where to start. You don't by chance work for our treasury department do you? joking

Money needs not be backed.Yes it does, otherwise it can be easily manipulated by those that are in charge of printing it. Again about 80% of our money stock is not green backs. What backs American dollar is the goods and services that it will buy. then how do you account for inflation. What backs the Dollar is the governments ability to levy taxes. The dollar can be a green back, check, or credit card.

Also think of gold and silver as any other commodity. Ever though, you deal with this every day? I doubt very many people haul gold or silver around to buy gas, food, pay rent, pay utilities etc............. actually everyone did until around 1965 I bet most take their pay checks in checks, cash or electronic transfer.

To be clear, buy gold/silver, etc as a investment is up to the investor. In my view in a worse case SHTF situational, that is what I responding too, it would be almost as worthless as paper.

Ask yourself why is the metal precious? If those industries ceased to exist would it still be precious? What industries? Silver was regarded as valuable long before it's current industrial uses Dollars is not a commodity (Unless someone is speculating on the dollar market) it is a medium of exchange. You can call it that if you want, I think we should call it what it is, a Federal Reserve Note. It says that right on the bill. We are literally trading debt that is no longer redeemable in lawful money at the treasury or the Federal Reserve The value of a medium of exchange is that it's acceptance as medium of exchange. again, how do account for inflation. Money needs no value on it's own. If you want to argue that, pick up that 1 cent worth of plastic called a Visa Card and think about all that it does.That is a perfect example. When SHTF and someone tries to exchange a check, credit card or $100 bill for my goods or service, when I cannot be assured that it is backed by anything, they will be thrown off my porch. Silver's value can be argued because value is in the eye of the consumer, but it will always have a value because there is a demand for it, and a limited supply. The Fed has not showed any indication of limiting the supply of the Dollar. It is losing value fast, and all this even during a period of high unemployment, which would naturally raise the demand for the Dollar.
 
HollisOR, you are apparently wanting to overlook all of human history. I will not argue the value of gold or silver with you anymore because it is a pointless discussion.
You have your opinion and obviously will not be swayed from it.
I will leave you with just one single question to ponder: can you name a single fiat currency that has retained its buying power over time?
 
Grunwald, Maybe it was my writing, but I never said a person should not invest in gold or silver. Just like today, if a person is buying gold and silver they see value in it. Again Money needs no intrinsic value. Just like your VISA card, for all practical purpose it is worthless in it self. Trading commodity for commodity is still done, I still barter to some extent. Anyone on this forum who barters should know it's pros and cons. Most places that I acquire stuff do not barter, that good old VISA card works very well in those occasions.

Brown trout in 1965, you are talking about silver certificate, they were not made out of silver. ;) Coins were 90%. There are plenty of books about the money stock. As I mentioned in the SHTF, was a worse case, where survival was number one problem and there are no markets. At best a person has a subsistence life style. That is it self would state there would be no markets and if there was very very limited. The Value in any money is what you can exchange it for. If no body wants it, it is worthless. Same with commodities in a barter society.

it is wiki, so it is short: Money - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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