gold/silver questions

[gunslinger1911]

here's the deal bearfoot...the value of silver = spot price, so right now the spot price (value) is $35.84oz... multiply that by .72 (there is .72oz of pure silver in a pre-'65 dollar) that gives you the value of us coins...ie $35.84 X .72 = 25.80...that is $25.80 per dollar or 25.8 X face value...walk in there with say $500, throw it on the counter and you should get in return $19.40 in face value of us silver...get it?

 

[Barefoot343]

Picked up two boxes last week. Instant $60 (unrealized) profit given the current metal prices

where did you get them, the bank will not give you pre 1964 nickles if you ask will they? I want to start buying some but still looking and asking questions.

 

[Barefoot343]

here's the deal bearfoot...the value of silver = spot price, so right now the spot price (value) is $35.84oz... multiply that by .72 (there is .72oz of pure silver in a pre-'65 dollar) that gives you the value of us coins...ie $35.84 X .72 = 25.80...that is $25.80 per dollar or 25.8 X face value...walk in there with say $500, throw it on the counter and you should get in return $19.40 in face value of us silver...get it?

excellent, thank you for explaining.

 

[gunslinger1911]

you are welcome friend

 

[trainsktg]

where did you get them, the bank will not give you pre 1964 nickles if you ask will they? I want to start buying some but still looking and asking questions.

'Pre 1964 nickels'? With the exception of a few years during WWII, all nickels have the same metal composition. Go to the bank and buy whatever they give you, its all the same. Don't forget to go through them either. IF you are lucky, you might find some WWII or Buffalo nickels in there.

As linked to earlier, go to this site and see what years are worth what in melt value. Current Melt Value Of Coins - How Much Is Your Coin Worth? Understand---it is currently ILLEGAL to melt down US coinage that is still in circulation...pennies, nickels and junk silver included. (I believe it is also illegal to melt down gold nuggets to, but that is a different story.)

Keith

 

[AMProducts]

gold and silver are great investments if you manufacture mirrors, microelectronics, satellite components, or art, Silver is an important industrial metal, and you can buy it as such. Until silver went over $20/oz I would regularly buy silver shot, as I use it for all kinds of stuff, from silversmithing, to plating. That was for fun, not investment potential. For investment potential right now I'm buying steel, usually in the form of used machine tools. I bought a surface grinder for 400 rounds of .308 (Hey, I guess cooper was right, ammunition is the currency of the future!).

When the market dumps, and you guys are busy looking for someone who has food you can trade some of that worthless gold for a drink of clean water, or a loaf of bread. Or worse still, someone jacks you for all your gold and silver, just remember, properties like "intrinsic value" have more to do with the form of something than the material. Example: guns are made of aluminum and iron, both materials are very cheap, but when formed into a gun it's about 10,000x more valuable than the components.

Don't buy gold... buy tools you can use to trade your labors, not some material that you can't eat, won't make you feel better when you're sick, and someone will stab you for.

 

[gunslinger1911]

when the market dumps, and the dollar fails, it is not necessarily going to mean all out SHTF chaos...it just means you better have some skills to barter with...or better yet, some MONEY put away that isn't made of paper (remember the depression?)...everyone knows that if we lost civility all together, and resorted to cannibalism and incest, no one is gunna give a crap about your gold bullion...i don't think THAT is the topic of discussion here...

 

[Burt Gummer]

All I can say is when I converted my life savings to silver at $12.80/ounce a lot of my friends were laughing. My accountant also thought it was nuts. Unbelievably, many still do. That is how powerful the propaganda regarding the dollar and our ponzi economy really is; makes you step back in disbelief. A nation with 14 trillion in debt (actually 60+ with unfunded liabilities) is still out waging worthless wars. The bankers, which are nothing more than crows by the roadside, have won.

All things related to paper will go 'poof' - IRA, stocks, savings; not if, but when. I feel pity for the unprepared, especially older folks. 98% of the American people are swamped in delusion - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCxBDDk4Y-M&feature=player_embedded

 

[HollisOR]

For silver to be of value, you need a market. In the worse case scenario, the really valuable things will be food/food production. Money is a substitute for direct bartering. I have no use for silver and would have to find some one who is. Then I would hope they have what I wanted. If only the US went bonkers and you were able to flee, the silver might be handy if you found another market that could use it. A starving man has no use for gold or silver.

For a SHTF, I would say invest in yourself. Find a place where you could live off a subsistence farm/ranch. The longer the duration of the collapse, eventually produce foods stock will fade away and one will need to grow food. Being able to live like the pioneers did in the 1700's would be survival.

What is needed for a week of survival will not work for a year survival or extended situation. Sooner or later, just like the 1700's a barter system will develop. Things of value will those things people will want and trade for. Power tools will be worthless, hand tools will be valuable. Society will rebuild itself, how long it will take depends. During the rebuilding being able to survive on your skills and land will be very important. At least IMHO.

 

[djm68]

For silver to be of value, you need a market. In the worse case scenario, the really valuable things will be food/food production. Money is a substitute for direct bartering. I have no use for silver and would have to find some one who is. Then I would hope they have what I wanted. If only the US went bonkers and you were able to flee, the silver might be handy if you found another market that could use it. A starving man has no use for gold or silver.

For a SHTF, I would say invest in yourself. Find a place where you could live off a subsistence farm/ranch. The longer the duration of the collapse, eventually produce foods stock will fade away and one will need to grow food. Being able to live like the pioneers did in the 1700's would be survival.

What is needed for a week of survival will not work for a year survival or extended situation. Sooner or later, just like the 1700's a barter system will develop. Things of value will those things people will want and trade for. Power tools will be worthless, hand tools will be valuable. Society will rebuild itself, how long it will take depends. During the rebuilding being able to survive on your skills and land will be very important. At least IMHO.

Generally speaking, I agree with your points. Gold and silver will not be valuable during a SHTF scenario, but once things "settle" down which might take many years, there *will* be a market for silver and gold. Why? Because, even in a barter economy, you need a method to store value. Let's say you want to travel and you will need food and lodging along the way. Will your bring eggs, a chicken, some veggies from your garden to pay? No, you sell those eggs, chicken and veggies for some silver. In the next village they recognize the value of that silver for which you paid for room and board, and the inn keeper uses the silver to buys some eggs, chicken and veggies from his local farmer...

DJM

 

[gunslinger1911]

Generally speaking, I agree with your points. Gold and silver will not be valuable during a SHTF scenario, but once things "settle" down which might take many years, there *will* be a market for silver and gold. Why? Because, even in a barter economy, you need a method to store value. Let's say you want to travel and you will need food and lodging along the way. Will your bring eggs, a chicken, some veggies from your garden to pay? No, you sell those eggs, chicken and veggies for some silver. In the next village they recognize the value of that silver for which you paid for room and board, and the inn keeper uses the silver to buys some eggs, chicken and veggies from his local farmer...

DJM

Bingo!

 

[djm68]

gold and silver are great investments if you manufacture mirrors, microelectronics, satellite components, or art, Silver is an important industrial metal, and you can buy it as such. Until silver went over $20/oz I would regularly buy silver shot, as I use it for all kinds of stuff, from silversmithing, to plating. That was for fun, not investment potential. For investment potential right now I'm buying steel, usually in the form of used machine tools. I bought a surface grinder for 400 rounds of .308 (Hey, I guess cooper was right, ammunition is the currency of the future!).

When the market dumps, and you guys are busy looking for someone who has food you can trade some of that worthless gold for a drink of clean water, or a loaf of bread. Or worse still, someone jacks you for all your gold and silver, just remember, properties like "intrinsic value" have more to do with the form of something than the material. Example: guns are made of aluminum and iron, both materials are very cheap, but when formed into a gun it's about 10,000x more valuable than the components.

Don't buy gold... buy tools you can use to trade your labors, not some material that you can't eat, won't make you feel better when you're sick, and someone will stab you for.

It depend on your constraints. I would not *only* buy gold/silver; likewise I'd not only buy guns/ammo. Balance your preparedness "portfolio". I have lots of silver and gold, but I also have lots of guns and ammo, food, water, medical supplies. I also have a garage full of mostly quality tools and quite a bit of gardening gear.

BTW, the surface grinder is powered by electricity, correct? Or is this hand powered? Do you envision a SHTF future with a functioning power grid but where gold/silver worthless?

DJM

 

[EZLivin]

I think the "ammo will be the new currency," and the "au/ag will have no value in SHTF" folks need to give it a rest. It is a personal decision to put all your efforts into the "worst case" scenario, but to have completely missed a 10-yr metals bull market, and yet continue to ramble on about how people should forget au/ag is bubbleguming hilarious. A lot of people who bought au/ag during the run up can now buy the food, ammo, guns, supplies they want with just a small amount of their profits alone. If they have done that, they are infinitely farther ahead than those who hoarded food and ammo and kept whatever was left in $USDs. I am a bit different - I focus on the mining stocks, but I congratulate all the people who had the foresight to buy physical au/ag. Congratulations; you acted wisely. Perhaps in TEOTWAWKI metals won't perform as expected (be a store of value), but how often in history does an event like that happen? (Answer: Not once in recorded history so far.) But history records countless SHTF times, and each time it was prudent to hold a portion of one's wealth in metals (and also in food, ammo, supplies, etc.). I prefer to be with the odds, not against the odds.

Ok, done. I suppose I've p****d off enough people for one night.

 

[nubus]

Thank you EZ, you didn't piss me off one bit, in fact +1 to your whole post.
SHTF this and SHTF that all you want, what if the SHTF we're faced with is the US defaulting on the FIAT?
I'm pretty 'effin sure all that Au/Ag is gonna be priceless at that point, not worthless.
BTW that scenario is far more likely than zombies or even a nuclear attack.
I have more than one "end game" in effect with decision to all my purchases.
One thing is for sure without doubt, the silver I bought three months ago at $28 is worth $37 today.
The only mistake I made was not starting to buy more sooner!
Carry on...

 

[Grunwald]

I think the "ammo will be the new currency," and the "au/ag will have no value in SHTF" folks need to give it a rest. It is a personal decision to put all your efforts into the "worst case" scenario, but to have completely missed a 10-yr metals bull market, and yet continue to ramble on about how people should forget au/ag is bubbleguming hilarious. A lot of people who bought au/ag during the run up can now buy the food, ammo, guns, supplies they want with just a small amount of their profits alone. If they have done that, they are infinitely farther ahead than those who hoarded food and ammo and kept whatever was left in $USDs. I am a bit different - I focus on the mining stocks, but I congratulate all the people who had the foresight to buy physical au/ag. Congratulations; you acted wisely. Perhaps in TEOTWAWKI metals won't perform as expected (be a store of value), but how often in history does an event like that happen? (Answer: Not once in recorded history so far.) But history records countless SHTF times, and each time it was prudent to hold a portion of one's wealth in metals (and also in food, ammo, supplies, etc.). I prefer to be with the odds, not against the odds.

Ok, done. I suppose I've p****d off enough people for one night.

+1

 

[Grunwald]

Thank you EZ, you didn't piss me off one bit, in fact +1 to your whole post.
SHTF this and SHTF that all you want, what if the SHTF we're faced with is the US defaulting on the FIAT?
I'm pretty 'effin sure all that Au/Ag is gonna be priceless at that point, not worthless.
BTW that scenario is far more likely than zombies or even a nuclear attack.
I have more than one "end game" in effect with decision to all my purchases.
One thing is for sure without doubt, the silver I bought three months ago at $28 is worth $37 today.
The only mistake I made was not starting to buy more sooner!
Carry on...

Exactly. I used to be in the anti-gold camp myself. A few years ago some people were mentioning it, and even though I have acknowledged that gold has been considered a precious metal for thousands of years, I also argued that it does not have any real useful value. We place high value in it, because it has been that way for thousands of years. I still hold that view, but yielded to history when I started thinking about all the currencies that went bust just in my lifetime. I remembered times when as a young boy I heard jokes about the Italian Lira and how a suitcase full was needed to by a loaf of bread. I remember hearing of South American counties enduring hyperinflation when prices go from 5 to 5000 in a matter of weeks.
More recently I remember Russia, Poland, Mexico amongst those who experienced hyperinflation in the 1990s. Then there was the Asian financial crisis during that decade as well. In the US we have not felt inflation because it has been low, but it has been there eating away at your savings (for those that have savings).
In all these cases the people who did not lose their fortunes had those fortunes in hard assets. Yes real estate is a hard asset and plenty of folks lost their shirts on those investments as well. Those loses had a lot to do with being leveraged (loans). Eventually even in real estate, you should be able recover your investment. Real estate does recover. Fiat currencies never do.

Investing in precious metals has one big plus and one big negative. The negative is that it is a non productive asset. If you put two gold coins in a sage, they are not going to get romantic and produce more little gold coins.
On the plus side, if you take physical possession of your precious metals, there is no cost associated with holding them.
Real estate requires maintenance and upkeep. Even raw land has the cost of taxes. Gold, platinum and silver have no such requirements. Stick them into a dark corner and forget about them until you need them.

 

[trainsktg]

Many Jews escaped Europe by the use of gold and diamonds that they had sewn into their clothes. I do not recall hearing of border guards and customs officials ever being successfully bribed by a basket of tomatoes or the offer to build a deck on the back of their house.

Keith

 

[Grunwald]

Many Jews escaped Europe by the use of gold and diamonds that they had sewn into their clothes. I do not recall hearing of border guards and customs officials ever being successfully bribed by a basket of tomatoes or the offer to build a deck on the back of their house.

Keith

LOL, That is a great point.
I have bought a few 20 Mark gold coins from Lear over the past year (dated between 1888 and 1912). I've just checked the price and they are currently being sold at $345. They still have value, but not because of the now long defunct government's backing. They have value because of the gold in them. The old bank credits and paper bank notes from the same time period have been worth nothing for nearly 100 years.
In 1914 Germany went off the gold standard. Soon after their money went into the toilet. Granted, it had a lot to do with them fighting in WWI and other social upheavals of the time period. None the less, the major reason for getting off the gold standard was to finance the war and you cannot print gold, but you can print paper.
I have no idea how much buying power the 20 Mark coin had when it was in circulation, but I know that it still has quite a bit today.

Oh, and remember how I just wrote that the Germans went off the gold standard so that they could print money to finance a war? What nation can you think of that exists today, is not on the gold standard, is fighting wars and printing money as it it was confetti?

 

[EZLivin]

You all are mentioning why it is so important to know your history. Whether "repeat" or "rhyme," I think history contains the blueprint for our future. Governments (and individuals) can be relied upon to act the same way they always have in times of crisis. Heck, they can even be relied upon to create the same crisis over and over.

Living overseas for a few years is what woke me up to the role of precious metals. Sure, I knew that at one time the US backed their currency with gold, but it wasn't until I saw the gold souks in the middle east did I understand that gold (and silver) was considered "money" in much of the world. It wasn't just middle east folks who were buying; it was people from all over the African and Asian continents. And it was rich and poor alike. They were smart; they have a much longer history to learn from than we Americans do.

 

[gunslinger1911]

I think the "ammo will be the new currency," and the "au/ag will have no value in SHTF" folks need to give it a rest. It is a personal decision to put all your efforts into the "worst case" scenario, but to have completely missed a 10-yr metals bull market, and yet continue to ramble on about how people should forget au/ag is bubbleguming hilarious. A lot of people who bought au/ag during the run up can now buy the food, ammo, guns, supplies they want with just a small amount of their profits alone. If they have done that, they are infinitely farther ahead than those who hoarded food and ammo and kept whatever was left in $USDs. I am a bit different - I focus on the mining stocks, but I congratulate all the people who had the foresight to buy physical au/ag. Congratulations; you acted wisely. Perhaps in TEOTWAWKI metals won't perform as expected (be a store of value), but how often in history does an event like that happen? (Answer: Not once in recorded history so far.) But history records countless SHTF times, and each time it was prudent to hold a portion of one's wealth in metals (and also in food, ammo, supplies, etc.). I prefer to be with the odds, not against the odds.

Ok, done. I suppose I've p****d off enough people for one night.

BRAVO!