God and guns

[westernsky20]

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[Chee-to]

Luke 22:36:

"But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one."

 

[MountainBear]

With the rash of Church shootings, I can't say as though I blame him for packing.

 

[DALE]

Pistol Packin' Preacher

I like the quote Adams said. "The reality is God has given man free will. We have to use our God-given talents and protect ourselves."

 

[JumpWing]

Adams is one of several Detroit clergymen who have taken to packing heat in the pulpit. They have committed their lives to a man who preached nonviolence and told followers to love their enemies.

They must not be referring to Jesus.

"It's getting worse because of the economy," Adams said. "People are out of work and feel they have to provide for their families."

Sorry Pastor, but most of these criminals are not "good folks gone bad."

Many people are uncomfortable with the idea of an armed clergy, because Christ preached against violence and taught people they should love their enemies.

Leave it to the media to reduce an entire Testament down to two ideas; and one of them inaccurately.

"It discourages the crazies from acts of violence if they see uniforms around, but I don't want everybody bringing guns," Meredith said. "My ultimate conviction is what does the word of God say and what would Jesus do? Can you in your wildest imagination ever see Jesus packing a .38? I can't imagine Peter and Paul carrying .45s."

They did, Pastor Meredith. They were called SWORDS. In fact Peter tried to take the head off a high priest's servant right in front of Christ (the guy dodged and Peter only clipped his ear). Matt 14:47 (Please research before telling me the verse doesn't specify Peter)

"People want to look at Christians and the church as believers in God and ask 'Why doesn't God protect you?" Adams said.

This is something a lot of people don't understand because they can't let go of the idea that this world is the sum total of human existence. If ...IF... there really is a heaven and h e ll*, and IF our duration there is indeed eternal, then the 80+ years one spends on this planet gets put into a much different perspective, doesn't it?

Additionally, the Bible makes it pretty clear that life is no bed of roses for those who follow Christ. You aren't guaranteed a "successful" life as defined by the world. Sometimes people get upset because they can't reconcile human reasoning and motives with the reason and motives of an omnipotent, omniscient being (even in a hypothetical sense).

Some people have this idea that Jesus was all about non-violence to the point of allowing yourself or loved ones to be tortured and murdered without resistance. I've got news for you: that wasn't what He preached. He preached against killing for revenge, against murdering over greed or hatred. Nowhere in my Bible does Jesus say lay down for a thief or murderer or gangbanging rapist.

In the end, the good Rev. Adams gets a big fat from me.



*I can't believe the filter on here is putting **** over the word "h e l l" That's a bit stiff, innit?

 

[smithmax]

Jumpwing, I wish more people could back up their faith with the same ability you have.

 

[JumpWing]

When I hear some ignoramus throwing down the gauntlet of "30,000 gun deaths every year" it frustrates the crap out of me because, like many firearms advocates, I know where that 30k number comes from statistically. The people who use it as a scare tactic know good and well that when people hear that number they think of one average citizen shooting another in the heat of the moment when, in truth, the bulk of it comes from suicides and from criminals getting shot by cops, good citizens, and other criminals.

My post isn't intended to be an argument for/against God, it is simply to correct some of the misconceptions about the "rules and regs" of my faith. People might not share my faith but they can sympathize with the frustration of seeing it misrepresented or inaccurately paraphrased.

Okay.... rant off. Thanks for your patience everyone.

 

[krawl]

Very good post.

 

[pdxjohann]

In late 2001 and 2002 Muslim preachers and faithful and anyone looking like they were middle eastern should have been packing for fear of attack. At other times Buddhists, Native Americans, Hindi, atheists too should have done. Now, ,if cougar start to pack, I'll be way scarred. They are sneaky, big and quiet. Heck if my crazy cat had another weapon, he'd take out the neighborhood. God bless us all.

 

[rsmccsman]

First Jesus was no wimp. He made a whip and kicked butt driving out the money changers in the temple. I think people do have a misconception about Jesus as being all warm and fuzzy like Mr. Rogers in a robe. Yes he did say turn the other cheek but that takes strength to do. A weak victim doesn't turn the other cheek because they have no choice, they just get slapped around. Yes Jesus did say for his disciples to buy a sword and Peter did cut off the ear of the High priest's servant. (see John Chapter 18.) The context of Jesus telling Peter to put away his sword was that he was still fully in control of the situation having just knocked a large number of armed guards to the ground by simply "saying I am he" after he asked them who they were looking for. In other words Jesus could have got away like he did numerous other times, when they wanted to kill him. His purpose was to be arrested and crucified. That was part of his plan. His kingdom was not of this world if it was then his followers would have attacked, was his response. He had his own agenda. That being said there is nothing unscriptural about self defense or protecting the flock. In Nehemiah when rebuilding the wall of Jerusalem the builders held a sword in one hand and built with the other. In my church I am on an armed safety and security team to prevent church shootings and protect the staff and the congregation. We have been in contact with many other churches locally that are doing the same thing to discuss training protocols. (I am talking about big mainstream denomination churches.) This is becoming more commonplace. We carry concealed and are very low key. No point in freaking out the little old ladies. Our head of security is retired LE and won't let any Barney Fife's on the team. So even though our Pastor is not packing heat (he is not trained), we've got his back. We take the threats that have come from all the recent church shootings very seriously and are doing everything we can to prevent it from happening here. People don't realize how many threats pastors and church staff receive from poeple who are angry at God or hostile to christianity or mentally ill or offended by something in the sermon. Thumbs up to this pastor and to Jumpwing. To those who do not share my beliefs, I respect your right to disagree and freely live your life as you see fit, as long as you respect my rights too.

 

[sweetnsauer]

This discussion reminds me of one I had with a former classmate a few years back about guns, violence, and general. I stated to him that "no man who is unwilling to take up arms for his country should be allowed to live in a free state." he took it as a challenge to show my ignorance of how the world is. I was recently shown a clip from the daily show by a friend of people in berkely CA protesting a marine corps recruiting station being placed in their town. THEIR TOWN! the nerve some of these people have, take the ability to legally protest and protest the very thing that gives you that right. ARE PEOPLE IN THE US JUST FLAT LOSING THE CONCEPT OF GRATITUDE!!!

Packing in church: rock on. Its legal, and why wouldnt you, its places like that the "non violent" people despise more than anything. A place where the teaching is about loving your fellow man, but not being an idiot. Ill take my seventy times seven slaps in the face without retaliation, but pull a gun on me and its on.

Sorry for the rant, but the current generation of americans need to go sit in a foxhole covered in excrement, body parts, with no food, no sleep, no sanity, no breaks, no T.V., not a da*n thing and then complain about the crazy rednecks that cause all the crime and hatred in america because they own guns. FOR GOODNESS SAKE, am I alone? is ted nugent the best we've got, bless him? When are we going to get a government and a group of citizens that can do more than take everything theyve ever been given for granted.


Again, sorry for the rant, but if america is the most amazing place in the world, how bad is it everywhere else. We've got it easy, too easy.

 

[Tactical SS]

(Exodus 22:2-3)

"If the thief is found breaking in, and he is struck so that he dies, there shall be no guilt for his bloodshed. If the sun has risen on him, there shall be guilt for his bloodshed. He should make full restitution; if he has nothing, then he shall be sold for his theft."

"Obviously here we see that when a thief breaks into someone’s house at night and that person defends his home and slays the thief, God does not hold that death over the defender’s head. However, God does not wish for anyone to take law into his or her own hands. This is why it is said that if a thief is struck down during the daylight the defender is guilty of bloodshed. Now this is speaking of thievery, not an attack. So if the thief were to attack the defender even during the day, self-defense would be justified."