GM Electric Cars / China / UAW

[rufus]

Three interesting and related news stories:

• Chevy Volt misses first-year sales target
• GM deal moves electric car development to China -- a 'shakedown'?
• UAW leaders back GM deal, say it will add/save 6,400 jobs

Is this what happens when "Too Big To Fail" makes stuff nobody wants?

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[Jamie6.5]

Is this what happens when "Too Big To Fail" makes stuff nobody wants?

Yup! Especially when the dotgov tells "too big to fail" they MUST build it!

 

[rufus]

Gov't Motors is in the news a lot today: <broken link removed>

Gee, I wonder if they regret taking the bait???

Bye bye GM, it's been fun.

 

[Redcap]

Gov't Motors is in the news a lot today: <broken link removed>

Gee, I wonder if they regret taking the bait???

Bye bye GM, it's been fun.

About time. General Morons has sucked for years.

 

[PhantomWorks]

Volt is NOT an electrical car. It's a hybrid. GM had a great electrical car, the EV-1, but like all 'profit first' company's they took the bribes from 'big oil' and crashed the program. So Toyota ran over them and took the WHOLE market.
Bummer.

 

[Mookie]

The volt is a great idea. It may not be the same quality as the Prius but it is a nicer car with better battery only range. If the electric and hybrids are a platform that "nobody wants" why are they selling like mad.

If I was in the market for a commuter car the Volt would be on the top of the list. 40 miles of battery only (average commute to work is 10-15 miles), that means no fule is used AT ALL for regular in town use.

Hybrids/electric are the next step and GM is building a great car. Imagine with this tech a 3/4 t pickup that gets 25 -30 mpg with a full load.

 

[Jamie6.5]

The EV-1 was an overpriced, waaay-too-expensive to build vehicle that had little range and relied on lead-acid batteries (later NMH) that made it just as hazardous to dispose of as the volt. It was tiny, and as a result, market appeal was limited at best.

Time magazine included it in the 50 worst cars of all time.
"Big oil" had nothing to do with it's demise.

Nice try though!

 

[DieselScout]

Hybrids/electric are the next step and GM is building a great car. Imagine with this tech a 3/4 t pickup that gets 25 -30 mpg with a full load.

Screw that! Why don't we see diesel electric hybrids? They would be king of the MPG wars. Imagine the above, but double the mileage.

 

[PhantomWorks]

An diesel engine wouldn't be very good as a hybrid engine. They are only efficient in a pretty narrow powerband, like in stationery generators, and trying to utilize them in the stop n' go way hybrids do would make them run cold and pollute a bunch. Startup is hard to manage in a clean matter. Might work if it was running continuous powering a generator... BUT if it was so much better, the Germans would all ready done it!

 

[DieselScout]

An diesel engine wouldn't be very good as a hybrid engine. They are only efficient in a pretty narrow powerband, like in stationery generators, and trying to utilize them in the stop n' go way hybrids do would make them run cold and pollute a bunch. Startup is hard to manage in a clean matter. Might work if it was running continuous powering a generator... BUT if it was so much better, the Germans would all ready done it!

Actually they would. Electric around town and once you hit the highway the diesel kicks on to maintain speed and charge the battery. And funny you should mention the Germans. VW made an ultralight concept with a small diesel in a hybrid setup. It got over 200 mpgs. Diesel can be built to produce less emissions then a natural gas engine, International truck and engine corp proved that with some of their busses. The technology is out there people just need to get over their diesel fear and ignorance.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC

 

[rufus]

I wish we in the USA had access to some of the turbodiesels that they have in Europe. The EPA has screwed this up too.

<broken link removed>

 

[CharonPDX]

A diesel would be *GREAT* in a hybrid; one of the major benefits of a hybrid is that it gets to run the engine however it wants. Toyota and Ford's hybrid systems use a modified gas engine that doesn't provide as much torque, but is more efficient, because they have the electric power for torque. Just run the diesel as a generator as needed, like the Volt's gas engine. You can make sure that it always operates at its most efficient.

Plus diesels can run on 100% biofuel with no loss in efficiency, unlike gas->ethanol.

 

[PhantomWorks]

Ford doesn't make hybrids. They buy there stuff from Toyota...
But what do I know about engines, only been a diesel tech since -92.

 

[mat33]

I love how everyone says that Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf missing sales projections is proof that there is no demand for electric cars. If you believe that, walk into a dealership and tell the first person you see that you'd like to drive one home today for MSRP. Heck, even tell them you'll pay a $1,500 "market adjustment fee". Depending on their mood, they'll either politely direct you to the waiting list or laugh you out of the building. If you don't live in one of the debut markets, you won't even be able to order one for months. They didn't meet sales projections because they didn't meet production targets. Not only is this new technology, but there was an earthquake in Japan last year that caused supply chain disruptions for every automaker.

Steam cars were superior in range, reliability, and performance when internal combustion engines came on the scene over a century ago, but I have never seen a flaming red chimney spewing coal smoke rolling down I-5 for the morning commute.

 

[Key-Hay]

When they come up with a hybrid that can pull my 40' 5th wheel I'll show some interest.

 

[rufus]

I love how everyone says that Chevy Volt and Nissan Leaf missing sales projections is proof that there is no demand for electric cars. If you believe that, walk into a dealership and tell the first person you see that you'd like to drive one home today for MSRP. Heck, even tell them you'll pay a $1,500 "market adjustment fee". Depending on their mood, they'll either politely direct you to the waiting list or laugh you out of the building. If you don't live in one of the debut markets, you won't even be able to order one for months. They didn't meet sales projections because they didn't meet production targets. Not only is this new technology, but there was an earthquake in Japan last year that caused supply chain disruptions for every automaker.

Steam cars were superior in range, reliability, and performance when internal combustion engines came on the scene over a century ago, but I have never seen a flaming red chimney spewing coal smoke rolling down I-5 for the morning commute.

Supply & demand vs. no supply & demand? Not much demand even though the darn things are subsidized, and not much supply (Japan?) equates to failure all the way around. Oh the salesmen will laugh at you alright, but not for the reasons you stated. But by all means, buy one or two. The economy could use the money.

 

[soberups]

I wish we in the USA had access to some of the turbodiesels that they have in Europe. The EPA has screwed this up too.

<broken link removed>

I drive a 2006 VW Jetta TDI turbodiesel that I bought new. Its the best car I have ever owned. Plenty of power, tons of torque, no cold-starting issues like the POS GM diesel cars from the late 70's/early 80's. I can easily get 45 MPG on the freeway and high 30's around town. I can go 600+ miles on a tank. And the best part....almost all of the fuel I use is made-in-Oregon biodiesel, available at several locations within 20 miles of my home. It costs a few cents more than normal petroleum diesel, but I like the fact that my money is supporting a local Oregon company (Sequential Biofuels) and my exhaust smells like french fries. I am going to drive this thing til the wheels fall off. And then I will buy another one.

 

[CharonPDX]

Ford doesn't make hybrids. They buy there stuff from Toyota...
But what do I know about engines, only been a diesel tech since -92.

If you read the articles about Ford's hybrids, you would have read that they had independently developed a system very similar to Toyota's, then in doing patent research realized they needed to license it from Toyota. Ford's hybrids are 100% Ford-designed and built. They're just very similar to Toyota's.

Nissan, on the other hand, outright buys Toyota-manufactured hybrid components and pairs them with a Nissan gas engine base.

 

[DieselScout]

When they come up with a hybrid that can pull my 40' 5th wheel I'll show some interest.

International DuraStar Hybrid

<broken link removed>

 

[rufus]

Ener1, Parent of Obama-Backed Green Company, Files for Bankruptcy

The parent company of an electric car battery maker that received more than $100 million in government funding from the Obama administration has filed for bankruptcy protection, the company announced Thursday.

Alex Sorokin, the CEO for lithium-ion battery manufacturer Ener1, said the company suffered when demand for the batteries dropped as fewer Americans than expected opted for electric cars.

More taxpayer money down the green hole...