Ghost gun definition appears to be misunderstood, Polymer 80's are not illegal IMO

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Maybe it's my personal reading history here, but the title seemed right on to me. There's some dude selling P80 frames in the classifieds who said it is illegal for WA residents to have them. Which is flat wrong. It's just problematic for sellers to sell them (unless it doesn't show on Xray, then yes, it is illegal to have in WA ... and the rest of the USA as well). So anyway, the title of the thread makes a lot of sense to me.

Yeah me too. I changed the longish title to be more of a statement instead of a question. The more statutes I read and added to the body the more I realized I had already proven to myself that these are not illegal in WA. Lot's of people are misinformed by bad blogs and such about this topic. It's always best to read the statutes yourself.

Reminds me of the time a gun shop employee told me batons were illegal in WA. I told him they were not. He said read the RCW. I told him I did, he misinterpreted it. It said carrying a baton IN A WAY, AT A PLACE or IN A MANNER that warrants reasonable alarm is illegal. It didn't say that carrying one is illegal. It basically said that if you carry one and are snapping it out and making people afraid swinging it around or something that a reasonable person would be alarmed by is illegal.

I even wrote the state legislature who would weigh in on stuff like this at the time and they noted I was correct. That was a looooong time ago, almost 20 years. They no longer weigh in, they tell you to contact an attorney. At least last time I tried eons ago.
 
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I really dont worry about it. I dont think a forest service cop is going to field strip any of my 80%s and whip out a scale to weight the metal.

No, they'll just arrest you under suspicion of violation and let prosecutors decide whether to file charges.:s0114:

It's also not the forest service I'd be worried about. A traffic stop where they ask you if you're carrying a weapon and go to run the serial, it has none, they call the sarge, all of a sudden there's a lot of attention, they don't know, they arrest just in case and figure it out later.

Or you use it in self-defense and now they REALLY look into it...you beat a homicide case as it's ruled SD, but all of a sudden are looking at criminal charges.
 
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Well crap -- if my wife tells me sweep up something, now I can't get out of it by calling brooms illegal.

Just tell her it's an ATF grey area. The broom may not have a dust pan lug or vertical grip, may only contain 10 bristles or less and must only be used for incidental, occasional and unintentional sweeping. The broom must also be registered, stored inside a safe-behind a vault-inside the Earth's core.
 
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Maybe it's my personal reading history here, but the title seemed right on to me. There's some dude selling P80 frames in the classifieds who said it is illegal for WA residents to have them. Which is flat wrong. It's just problematic for sellers to sell them (unless it doesn't show on Xray, then yes, it is illegal to have in WA ... and the rest of the USA as well). So anyway, the title of the thread makes a lot of sense to me.
Just to clarify things as this seems to have triggered some on this forum.

We are not "some dude" we are a Supporting Vendor of this forum, a Licensed Gun Shop, and a dealer for Polymer 80. As such we follow the guidelines set in forth by Polymer80 when it comes to selling their products.

Does not mean we agree with them, but we will follow the guidelines they set in place. What is stated on our ad is directly from Polymer80. We can certainly rephrase it though. To state "per Polymer 80 we cannot ship to..."
 
Just to clarify things as this seems to have triggered some on this forum.

We are not "some dude" we are a Supporting Vendor of this forum, a Licensed Gun Shop, and a dealer for Polymer 80. As such we follow the guidelines set in forth by Polymer80 when it comes to selling their products.

Does not mean we agree with them, but we will follow the guidelines they set in place. What is stated on our ad is directly from Polymer80. We can certainly rephrase it though. To state "per Polymer 80 we cannot ship to..."
You have my full support. Thank you for chiming in.
 

awshoot

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Just to clarify things as this seems to have triggered some on this forum.

We are not "some dude" we are a Supporting Vendor of this forum, a Licensed Gun Shop, and a dealer for Polymer 80. As such we follow the guidelines set in forth by Polymer80 when it comes to selling their products.

Does not mean we agree with them, but we will follow the guidelines they set in place. What is stated on our ad is directly from Polymer80. We can certainly rephrase it though. To state "per Polymer 80 we cannot ship to..."
That's fine and all, but the "it is illegal for WA residents to own 80% stuff" is fake news whoever says it. It was what Furgeson tried to get published in the papers -- and we know how the media loves to lie -- but the legislature did not in any way ban WA residents from owning 80% items -- it simply made sellers nervous about selling them. But the more people who believe that 80% stuff is illegal here, the bigger the win for the Anti2A crowd. They don't even have to pass a law -- just pass off a lie that is believed and repeated to win.
 

awshoot

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Illegal to OWN or illegal to purchase? Big difference.
As has been mentioned repeatedly, they are not illegal to own OR purchase. Sellers are simply SHY about SELLING them because of https://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=9.41.325
(1) No person may knowingly or recklessly allow, facilitate, aid, or abet the manufacture or assembly of an undetectable firearm or untraceable firearm by a person who: (a) Is ineligible under state or federal law to possess a firearm; or (b) has signed a valid voluntary waiver of firearm rights that has not been revoked under RCW 9.41.350. For purposes of this provision, the failure to conduct a background check as provided in RCW 9.41.113 shall be prima facie evidence of recklessness.
(2)(a) Any person violating this section is guilty of a gross misdemeanor punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW.
(b) If a person previously has been found guilty under this section, then the person is guilty of a class C felony punishable under chapter 9A.20 RCW for each subsequent knowing violation of this section. A person is guilty of a separate offense for each and every firearm to which this section applies.
The biggest piece of fake news is that WA banned ghost guns. It did no such thing at all -- ALL that it did was threaten sellers that if they didn't do a BGC and in some way helped a prohibited person -- NOT ANY PERSON -- A PROHIBITED PERSON -- build a firearm, then the SELLER committed a misdemeanor (second time a felony). That's it.

All the news about Turd banning ghost guns was 100% bull bubblegum.

The WA laws about undedectable firearms changed nothing. If a P80 is undedectable, it's already a Federal crime so whatever WA wants to say about it doesn't matter. It just makes it illegaler.

As for untraceable guns, the ONLY prohibition a WA resident faces, is building one with the intent to sell. But then if you are building guns for sale, you already need an FFL, and an FFL has to put on a serial number. But if you are not an FFL and selling unserialized guns, the Feds will want to have a word with you way before the state. So again -- the law changed NOTHING for WA residents because it is already illegal in every state to build guns for commercial purposes without a serial number.

I mean for cryin' out loud -- they don't even need to pass anti2A laws it seems. People will just pretend the laws exist apparently and say total lies like "WA residents can't own 80% stuff". It ticks me off.
 
I understand your frustration. I would be too. Undetectable and untraceable along with “ghost gun” being interchanged definitely makes it clear as mud. That along with the major online sellers/distributors refusing to ship to WA makes some folks confused. I am not a WA resident and I don’t know all the ins and outs of the laws there. My apologies for not reading all the laws posted in the OP. Again, the OP was heavily edited after the fact and I failed to go back and fully read the revised version.
 

awshoot

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I understand your frustration. I would be too. Undetectable and untraceable along with “ghost gun” being interchanged definitely makes it clear as mud. That along with the major online sellers/distributors refusing to ship to WA makes some folks confused. I am not a WA resident and I don’t know all the ins and outs of the laws there. My apologies for not reading all the laws posted in the OP. Again, the OP was heavily edited after the fact and I failed to go back and fully read the revised version.
Hey -- sorry about being testy. To be honest, if I was a retailer I would also not ship to WA because the risk sellers take in the transaction is one I would not want to accept. I don't hold that against sellers at all. But I bristle at the ones who won't admit that perfectly acceptable reason, and instead make up reasons.
 
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I originally posted it as a question but as I kept adding more legal statutes to the post I realized there really was no need for discussion, the statutes are pretty clear.

And my note about the law not being interpreted correctly (they won't ship here) and how the law surely means what I think it means considering federal and state law don't define the receiver as a firearm by itself for THIS context, then comparing it to a Glock receiver for confirmation, as in, if this law meant this was illegal here, then the Glock receiver by itself would be illegal. But federal and state law clearly define the complete gun as a firearm in this context. WA doesn't explicitly note the receiver is not a firearm in this context, but the definitions of the states RCW for a firearm states that it has to be capable of firing a projectile by means of an explosion such as with gun powder. A receiver by itself can't do that, so it's a complete firearm, not the sum of it's parts that make it a firearm for the purpose of this statute.

So I posed it as a question of, is it just me or did people misread and misinterpret this, then realized as I read more statutes at the federal level, that there is no question, it's a statement post. I was just trying to spread the word. Many people think these are illegal in WA now (most companies won't ship here) but they actually aren't.
Thank you. This was the most succinct, clear explanation yet.
 

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