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Get flu shot??

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I did not know that Malaria had become quinine resistant and multi-drug resistant. So I'm glad that Chinese scientists found a more effective natural medicine. However, looking at the article you linked, I find the science behind it very impressive, whereas there is no equivalent scientific studies in the Herbal Industry as we know it. Aspirin is another well known, and effective, naturally occurring substance. Although I'd have to look for studies, I know it is. Conversely, I've tried Echinacea at the recommendation of Sifu and Sigung and have not found it to be effective in warding off or shortening respiratory infections. Same for AirBorne, the highly touted zinc formulation advertised and bandied about as a cure for the common cold. My conclusion is that it's hype.

The "science" behind anti-vax does not support the conclusions that they are drawing. That is all. Personal experience and anecdotal reports are not withstanding scrutiny.

And Epstein didn't kill himself!!!
Believe it or not, there are many articles about various natural nutritional supplements that have been backed up by quite a bit of scientific research. Artemisinin is one of many and has been used for years before the pharmaceutical companies finally discovered how effective it was and used it to derive another anti-malarial drug. However, another example, I am currently taking Agmatine Sulphate, which is a chemical that is created naturally from the Amino Acid, Arginine natural that was suggested by my Medical Doctor (MD)) for my nerve pain and back issues. There has been scientific research from reputable sources that has been shown to be more effective for treating neuropathy than common pharmaceuticals like Neurontin with not only much less side effects, but other health benefits. It is also used in high dosages by bodybuilders to increase nitric oxide levels in the body which help promote energy and muscle growth. YOu can buy Agmatine products anywhere and, even though there are some very expensive forms, it hasn't been proven that even the bodybuilding Agmatine Sulphate products are much less effective for treating nerve pain.



I am not a big fan of Echinacea, but I also know many people take it like the cure for a disease, when in fact, it was always a preventative that people took for a couple weeks during flu season or at the immediate onset of an illness. Olive leaf and Oregano Oil are many , many times more powerful immune boosters than Echinacea and I took those when I was in Africa in large quantities. ALso, the source of most echinacea (and many other supplements) is very questionable and if you are not aware of where you are sourcing your herbs and nutritional supplements you might as well just go buy your vaccine (you trust your life in) from the chinese dealer on the street who claims its top quality and half the price. Of course, with pharmaceuticals you get if from the pharmacy and that is one thing I respect about FDA approved drug is you know what you are getting and the source. With herbs/ supplements you really have to research your source and find reputable companies that also have third party laboratory analysis done on their products.

Zinc, somewhat like Echinacea when taken in high dosages, is not really great as taken for a cure, but definitely has been shown to help with immune response. Zinc deficiencies are also linked to more severe symptoms with viral infections. Zinc, is one of the minerals that should be taken daily along wiht co-factor nutrients like Selenium (many people are deficient in this). High dosages of Zinc (along with Selenium) can definitely help reduce cold/flu symptoms, but shouldn't be prolonged for too long as Zinc toxicity is a potential problem. Zinc is also very good for your libido and proper sexual function.


Another potent herb backed by scientific research is Passion Flower that has been shown that it is as effective of anti-anxiety medicine as many pharmaceutical grade anti-anxiety medications with considerably less side effects.
 
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saxon

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There ya go, anecdotal proof that the flu shot gives you the flu.

And according to professional MDs, all infected spider bites are Brown Recluse bites!

And Epstein didn't kill himself!!!
yes remember H1N1 funny how it was below normal till the news media said how bad it was, then BAM ER full of people with flu like symptoms,, then they stopped testing to see what strain of flu it was.
in fact all people with flu like symptoms were considered to have H1N1 regardless of what strain it really was...

last years H3N2
According to the CDC:

In the past, H3N2-predominant seasons have been associated with more severe illness and higher mortality, especially in older people and young children, relative to H1N1- or B-predominant seasons. Between 1976 and 2007, for example, CDC estimates that an average of 28,909 people died from flu during H3N2 seasons, compared to 10,648 people during non-H3N2 predominant years.

but wait what are the numbers??

cdc says States Reporting H3N2 Cases
Cases in
2012-
309 H3N2v Hospitalizations and Deaths
that was
hosp 16
death 1

case is 2017- 62
hosp 5
death 0
but but muh flu is so deadly....


but but muh flu is do deadly
The CDC has approximately 120 testing centers located throughout the United States. If an ill person goes into a testing center, the practitioners there send nasal and throat swabs to the CDC for testing. Looking over at data from the Weekly U.S. Influenza Surveillance Report, we can see that since October 2017 – the beginning of the flu season, the CDC has tested almost 372,000 specimens. Of those, only 12.8% have been POSITIVE for influenza viruses.


when H5N1 was in it's hey day you know how many confirmed deaths do to H5N1?
from 1997 to 2004 thier were about 18 comfirmed H5N1 deaths yet to listin to the news media it was in the 1,000's then wehn it was not the big death deal they said they started to "down play" the issues


CDC openly admits flu vaccines don't work
Here's news you don't see every day: The CDC openly admits that vaccine flu shots "wear off," meaning they simply do not work in the way vaccine-pushing immunologists told us they did.


Merck vaccine scientist Dr. Maurice Hilleman admits vaccines contain cancer-causing viruses
The actual admission happened decades ago, but news of it only went viral in 2011 as alternative news websites publicized the once-secret audio recordings revealing shocking admissions by Dr. Maurice Hilleman


HPV vaccines found contaminated with HPV!
Pretty clever, huh? Just lace the HPV vaccines with the DNA of HPV itself, and you can spread the disease to create more fear that sells more vaccines


Swine flu vaccine admittedly causes neurological disorders
2011 was the year that the nation of Finland openly admitted on the record that swine flu vaccines "conclusively" cause neurological disorders. It then offered to pay the lifetime medical costs of those damaged by such vaccines.

Remember, the USA continues to absurdly claim that vaccines cause NO damage (not to anyone) and are perfectly safe for infants, children and even pregnant women

In 1978, a survey of 30 States in the US revealed that more than half of the children who contracted measles had been adequately vaccinated.

The February 1981 issue of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that 90% of obstetricians and 66% of pediatricians refused to take the rubella vaccine.

In the USA, the cost of a single DPT shot had risen from 11 cents in 1982 to $11.40 in 1987. The manufacturers of the vaccine were putting aside $8 per shot to cover legal costs and damages they were paying out to parents of brain damaged children and children who died after vaccination. (The Vine, Issue 7, January 1994, Nambour, Qld)

In 1990, the Journal of the American Medical Association had an article on measles which stated “Although more than 95% of school-aged children in the US are vaccinated against measles, large measles outbreaks continue to occur in schools and most cases in this setting occur among previously vaccinated children.” (JAMA, 21/11/90)

In the USA, from July 1990 to November 1993, the US Food and Drug Administration counted a total of 54,072 adverse reactions following vaccination. The FDA admitted that this number represented only 10% of the real total, because most doctors were refusing to report vaccine injuries. In other words, adverse reactions for this period exceeded half a million! (National Vaccine Information Centre, March 2, 1994)


In the New England Journal of Medicine July 1994 issue a study found that over 80% of children under 5 years of age who had contracted whooping cough had been fully vaccinated.


fox news
a leading health expert said the swine flu scare was a "false pandemic" led by drug companies that stood to make billions from vaccines, The Sun reported Monday.


Wolfgang Wodarg, head of health at the Council of Europe, claimed major firms organized a "campaign of panic" to put pressure on the World Health Organization (WHO) to declare a pandemic.


few years ago in NJ mumps outbreak Of the New Jersey cases, 77 percent were vaccinated


And U.S. officials said they were changing the labeling on a vaccine made by Australia’s CSL Ltd (CSL.AX) because it appears to have caused a higher than usual rate of seizures in children.
 

saxon

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Post hoc, ergo propter hoc fallacy. Not to mention the average incubation period for influenza is one to four days, not two weeks.
again reading is fundamental, here let me try again in detail.

15 people at work of those 9 get a flu shot,
of those 15 the 6 who did not get a shot never got the flu nor did they get sic with "flu" like symptoms that year,
of the 9 who got a flu shot 3 fell ill and were sick with the "flu" within 2 days
of the reaming 6 who got the "flu"shot they got the "flu" within 2 weeks After their vaccination,
ergo they got the "flu" after being "vaccinated" against the "flu"
 

bbbass

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However, another example, I am currently taking Agmatine Sulphate, which is a chemical that is created naturally from the Amino Acid, Arginine natural that was suggested by my Medical Doctor (MD)) for my nerve pain and back issues.
Thanx for the info. I'll check it out since I suffer from both peripheral neuropathy and back pain.

I have used Arnica salve with good effect. Also CBD salve from Lazurus Naturals and some even better full spectrum salve from a trusted private source.

The Dunning–Kruger effect is always a riot.
Not me!!!


Everything big pharma makes is safe?
Holy crap some people are way to low on the IQ scale.
And it's corollary: Everything big pharma makes is unsafe! And everything the FDA, the CDC, and Public Health says is a lie. And everybody saying so is a MENSA candidate!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
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One this for sure: Using the 'ignore feature' has a soothing, nay, medicinal effect is fo realz...me olde BP is better for it an nat ain't no lie....
 
And it's corollary: Everything big pharma makes is unsafe! And everything the FDA, the CDC, and Public Health says is a lie. And everybody saying so is a MENSA candidate!!! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
Yup. Ignoring the fact no one said "everything" is safe from big pharma, the [insert bad thing] about the influenza vaccine getting past armies of virologist, epidemiologists, and countless others in the field, who work in many societies, is laughable. Oh, wait, conspiracy theories don't require reason or facts. :rolleyes:

One this for sure: Using the 'ignore feature' has a soothing, nay, medicinal effect is fo realz...me olde BP is better for it an nat ain't no lie....
Alas, I can't use this one. Though I wouldn't if I could; there is a certain entertainment factor. :s0165:
 

bbbass

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Yup. Ignoring the fact no one said "everything" is safe from big pharma, the [insert bad thing] about the influenza vaccine getting past armies of virologist, epidemiologists, and countless others in the field, who work in many societies, is laughable. Oh, wait, conspiracy theories don't require reason or facts. :rolleyes:
You're making to much sense! Stop it right now or else!!!


Alas, I can't use this one. Though I wouldn't if I could; there is a certain entertainment factor.
Unfortunately for me, that feature is the only way I can survive here or I would be either permanently banned, or my head would explode. It's the same reason I don't watch The Nightly News, etc.
 
Unfortunately for me, that feature is the only way I can survive here or I would be either permanently banned, or my head would explode. It's the same reason I don't watch The Nightly News, etc.
Roger that. Personally, I take Jünger's view of "I live in a world which I ultimately do not take seriously." It is kind of like an auto-ignore feature. :s0112:

Anyway, out of this thread. Enjoy!
 

bbbass

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One this for sure: Using the 'ignore feature' has a soothing, nay, medicinal effect is fo realz...me olde BP is better for it an nat ain't no lie....
I just wish the "Ignore Thread" feature worked differently. Even after I have clicked to ignore a thread, it keeps popping up in the "New Posts" box on the right, keeps notifying me of replies to my posts in that thread, etc. I've even been thwarted trying to ignore the "Survival" forum room. <sheesh>
 
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Man, this forum is the epitome of hyperbole.. There is a difference between thinking everything claimed by the Big Pharma, FDA, CDC or <Enter Big Government/Corporate Entity Here> is evil or bad and questioning the safety of certain products that they claim are safe, but you may have reservations about.

Do any of you question our gun laws or the so-called studies of "experts", especially from our "government" when they make statements defending the need for specific laws, like "Red Flag" laws? Yet, suddenly if someone is a little critical and questions certain drug/pharmaceutical products that the government has approved suddenly they are a conspiracy theory , crazy health nut job who is against the entire government, doctors and drugs.

How about a little less emotional outbursts and a little more sensible conversation and actually reading in detail the statements people (like myself) have made in regards to the subject.

I think having a government agency that researches the safety of products, such as medicines, drugs, even supplements is a great thing. However, when they become so big and powerful and then start having people from drug companies take control of the regulatory committees that does cause me concern. As well, they have made it so difficult for people promoting alternative medicines to receive adequate attention, as so much has been invested in these powerful drug companies. I think the FDA has too much power and nobody with drug company affiliation should ever be serving on the board. It is like having a family members of a murderer serving on a jury and trying to give an unbiased verdict in a murder trial.

That doesn't mean I think it is bad we have government agency that helps protect our health and verify the quality and safety of products. But, I also think we should be a free society and not a nanny-state where we need a giant, powerful government agency telling us what we are allowed to take and what doctors are allowed to prescribe. If a person wants to take a non-FDA approved drug based on their own research and assume the risks, I think it should be their free choice to do so. I don't recall we had a Food & Drug Administration back int he olden days and it definitely had not the power to tell us what is allowed to be put on the market , who is allowed to patent and manufacture a specific substance and also help enrich the very members on the board of that organization so they can inhibit potentially competing products and supplements while potentially approving products with a bias.

I am not against the government or even the FDA. My problems is the way it is being operated. I also do think some of these vaccines have not had adequate long term testing and there is a long track record of vaccines that have caused serious complications and have not been effective. There are also vaccines that have been proven to be effective and have withstood the test of time.

But, one thing people don't seem to realize (I am definitely with Saxxon here), is that the pharmaceutical companies certainly make billions and billions on their flu vaccines and scaring the living crap in people about how deadly the flu has become and making your run to go and pump yourself full of these vaccines that contain substances that have not been researched for their long term effects, especially on children. Did you survive the flu as a child? You already are a great test subject at how children can survive the flu. Did you grow up taking flu vaccines? Do you know the long term effects of these vaccines on yourself taking them as a child? Vaccines are very potent and potentially dangerous drugs and I think should be used sparingly. Just going and getting your bi-yearly vaccine for this and that I think is a serious risk. Vaccines could be produced in much safer manner, but the research, resources and time to do so would not be profitable to these giant mega-pharmaceutical corporations who are looking (as any business would) at a profit margins. With members of their own companies sitting on the approval boards do you feel happy and safe with the approval process for these drugs that some of you claim are so educated about and have researched so deeply yourselves? Seriously , using adjuvants of mercury, aluminium and formaldehyde is pretty disgusting to me. But, it isn't always the preservatives that can pose a danger in vaccine, but also the type of denatured viruses or the cultures used can have potential side effects.


People have survived the flu in a time where we had much poorer hygiene, no anti-biotics, no nutritional supplements or drugs. People even lived long lives without a flu vaccine. Their natural immunity helped fight off this virus that has a very, very low mortality rate. In fact,it wasn't the flu that killed people in the flue epidemic, rather it was the infections that resulted from it and lack of anti-biotics and the fact people were impoverished and had very poor diets and squalor living conditions.

An interesting NCBI research article actually using statistical data shows flu deaths and infections were declining before the use of vaccines, therefore vaccines have had no significant impact on infections and complications from the flu


Implications for Influenza Vaccines
Historical influenza mortality data contain many relevant implications for influenza vaccination campaigns. The overall decline in influenza-attributed mortality over the 20th century cannot be the result of influenza vaccination, because vaccination did not become available until the 1940s and was not widely used until the late 1980s.19 This rapid decline, which commenced around the end of World War II, points to the possibility that social changes led to a change in the ecology of influenza viruses.

I found that declining mortality rates occurred simultaneously with expanded influenza vaccine coverage since 1980, especially for the elderly (65 years and older).19 However, recent research suggests that vaccination is an unlikely explanation of mortality trends. A 2005 US National Institutes of Health study of over 30 influenza seasons “could not correlate increasing vaccination coverage after 1980 with declining mortality rates in any age group.”19(p265) Other research has reviewed available international studies of inactivated influenza vaccine effectiveness and efficacy. One study concluded that “evidence from systematic reviews shows that inactivated vaccines have little or no effect on the effects measured.”20(p915) Considered in light of the data presented here, these studies imply that other causes–such as an improvement in living conditions or naturally acquired immunity from similar strains of influenza virus–may have been partially responsible for the declining trends in recorded influenza mortality.
 

bbbass

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Man, this forum is the epitome of hyperbole.. There is a difference between thinking everything claimed by the Big Pharma, FDA, CDC or <Enter Big Government/Corporate Entity Here> is evil or bad and questioning the safety of certain products that they claim are safe, but you may have reservations about.
My comment was in response to another member stating that people believing everything the FDA, CDC, etc etc etc et al, indicated a low IQ. Please do not evaluate my comment without the context in which it was intended. No hyperbole, just illuminating ridiculous rhetoric by being ridiculous with a ridiculous riposte.

Didn't read the rest of your post. #1 I don't normally have the attention span to read long posts anymore, especially if they are not parsed into short paragraphs, #2 you lost me at epitome of hyperbole...
 

bbbass

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People have survived the flu in a time where we had much poorer hygiene, no anti-biotics, no nutritional supplements or drugs.
Again with the "I/we survived" talking points. Ignores the facts in evidence:

The Spanish flu pandemic of 1918, the deadliest in history, infected an estimated 500 million people worldwide—about one-third of the planet's population—and killed an estimated 20 million to 50 million victims, including some 675,000 Americans.

Among many other sources: Spanish Flu

Yeah, some folks survived. It could have wiped out 95% of the world's population and you could still say "People have survived".... I say, yet again since you keep bringing "I/we survived" talking point up, what about the millions that didn't survive. And, could it happen again????
 

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