George Floyd

[trevi]

I've seen many arrest videos were the behavior of the cops was questionable. Too many don't seem to understand the human body. I played college judo, followed by many years of karate and Tai Chi. I guarantee that there are effective techniques for controlling an opponent, but many cops seem oblivious. It shouldn't take 4 cops to take down one guy. Arms bars, Shime waza, and pressure point attacks work wonders - and fast. A person should NEVER kneel on a constrained subject's neck. What was he thinking? He clearly has no sense of key physical vulnerabilities.

There is also the inside leg trip used by shinobi judo, very effective in putting offenders on the ground supine, it also gives control of their hands, too. Useful anywhere.

Nice to know another judoist in this forum.

 

[v0lcom13sn0w]

its a shame that the actions of a couple make all cops look bad.

just like when someone goes and shoots up a mall. makes all gun owners look bad.

 

[Alexx1401]

its a shame that the actions of a couple make all cops look bad.

just like when someone goes and shoots up a mall. makes all gun owners look bad.

Yes. I am VERY pro Cop. That is also why I am VERY big on hammering bad ones. They get good Cops hurt and killed. Not to sure about hammering the ones who did not stop this moron. It was bad. The one who murdered the guy needs to do some real time. It was not an accident, it was not spit second decision making gone bad. He killed the guy slowly, while he knew he was being filmed doing it.

 

[Member 5605]

I would think fellow cops would have enough respect for their profession to handle their own bad apples. I'd figure that would be more honorable than sharing a badge and reputation with murders.

Nah, they all hide behind the big Union.

Edit:
Cowards hide, those who speak out like Mr. Anderson from Seattle are quickly ostracized.

 

[blinded]

Sure if you were there and packing, you could have pulled your firearm and ordered the officer to remove his knee from the suspects neck. I doubt he or his fellow officers would have responded in a manner you would hope for. My guess is you might be the one in the morgue or at best sitting in county waiting for your trial. At least then you would have the satisfaction that maybe you saved the suspects life.

Much of society places an extraordinary amount of trust and power in the hands of LEOs. If we were to intervene everytime we thought an injustice was occurring, it would lead to chaos. Especially in communities where police are less trusted and respected.

That is why when an LEO really screws up we usually rely on the courts and juries to make it right. As a citizen you can observe and document potential injustices and hope that the courts and juries can iron it out.

I agree, trying to intervene almost certainly isn't going to turn out well. That's part of what makes the situation so awful.

And if intervening were to be advocated it could only be for a gross, obvious injustice. It's not something I'm advocating for in general. But one has to think there could be a situation where morally it is the right decision, and this very well may have been such a situation.

I am definitely not anti cop. It would be an amazingly hard job, especially in certain places. But it's pretty scary to see how easily their authority and the trust given them can be so heinously abused and nobody can do anything about it in the moment.

If I were the one dying it would be pretty cold comfort to think, well the courts will handle it.

 

[clearconscience]

The moment the crowd erupt into anarchy, violence, looting, burning, etc they lose all credibility.
They are nothing more than lawless criminals.
This always happens.
It's not about justice or injustice, it's about looting, destroying, and anarchy.

It's not the LEOs fault this guy was stopped. Based off that security cam footage you can bet this guy was a drug addict and probably high or needing to get high when this happened.
He was resisting, at every turn.

His death was more than likely caused from drugs, not the LEOs knee in his neck,

Was that smart of the cop? No
Did it keep him restrained? Yes

These cops will most likely be hung out to dry for this by politically motivated Mayors, prosecutors, DAs, Judges, and of course the media.

Question is was he on drugs?
If he was, would he have died if he wasn't?

Either way, there's no reason to burn your town down for some guy losing his life.


And a pawn shop owner shot some guy defending his business which they are investigating as a homicide..... WTF?!

If there wasn't violent rioting happening he wouldn't have had to do that.
If they city would fight back against rioting It wouldn't have happened.

How is it this guys fault?

Expect more violence, rioting, and anarchy pushed by leftist politicians and media (Soros) and everyone of them will blame Trump.

They need more to make him look bad. Their other attempts at false narratives didn't work, why stop now?

 

[clearconscience]

I think Bodycam footage will make or break this case.

And you hear one of the LEOs say what are you on?
As in drugs.

People want to blame cops about people yelling I can't breath, I'm claustrophobic.

How many times do they here that a night? People will say and do anything to get out of going to jail.

 

[fishpoem]

There is also the inside leg trip used by shinobi judo, very effective in putting offenders on the ground supine, it also gives control of their hands, too. Useful anywhere.

Nice to know another judoist in this forum.

Thanks. I grew up in a tough neighborhood. Played sports, fought all the time. Thought I knew something about fighting. Then I started judo and discovered that 135 lb, 60 year-old Asian men could toss me around like a rag doll. I realized I knew nothing. Seems like some cops haven't learned that lesson. Having a big gun and a big ego doesn't mean you know how to fight but in some ways makes you more vulnerable. Besides learning how to size people up, a good martial artist learns how to stay out of fights by using mind over emotion. If somebody forces you to fight, the goal isn't to hurt them but simply make them realize they can't win.

 

[Olderguy]

My heart and sympathy goes out to Mr. George Floyd's family and friends and on the surface it certainly looks bad but after 50 years as an investigator I know there may be a lot more to the story. Glads to see DOJ is investigating. One thing I have not heard is why they took him to the ground, did he suddenly become non compliant and fight the officers? he looked very compliant in the initial videos I saw but I guess people sometimes go a little bonkers when taken into custody.

 

[Member 34319]

I've been in handcuffs twice in my life. Both prior to turning 19.

The first time I was helping a friend, Italian (very dark skin) watch his brothers house and dogs. We entered through the side door, as we always did. This was at 9pm this time. Neighbors called the cops thinking burglary. We had lights on, screen door open to let air in. Dogs started to growl at the door, probably around 10-11pm at this time. I opened the screen door, which was not locked and turned on the porch light to see what was up. About 6 lasers where on me. It was a blur from there, shouting, cops stormed the house, dragged my friend out to the lawn. I was already cuffed, and the cops were searching my pockets for anything and were already reviewing the contents of my wallet. The officer that was in charge of me had me on my knees in the grass handcuffed. The part that throws me off, till this day, was that they had my friend cuffed, face down on the concrete, with an officers knee in the same position this guy died from on his neck. He was crying, I don't blame him, the whole thing scared the living sh!t out of both of us. One moment hanging out with the dogs eating pizza rolls playing video games, next moment a swarm of cops (at least 8) around us guns drawn.

Any way, the moral of that story, I still have no freaking clue why the F the cops treated my friend so differently than me. The only thing I could come to with after all these years was that he was very dark skinned. Still haunts me to this day, watching my friend crying face pinned to the concrete 200# grown man on him like he was some sort of animal.

Second time in cuffs...

I was going 60 in a 40. Flew by a cop. Said a few choice swear words and pulled off the side of the road in a neighbor hood to wait. Waited, waited, huh, no cop. I never saw his lights, but had a feeling he would likely come. Started driving again, figuring he didn't turn around. Then there he was. He turned on his lights, I pulled over. He was on me in less than seconds. He unbuckled my seat belt and pulled me through the window. I was cuffed and he left me on the curb to sit. He searched my car, he figured I was evading him, IE running. However, after the initial violence of being ripped from my vehicle, I was treated well. Hell, he even loosened my cuffs before putting me in his patrol car to go to the local jail. I can't help but think about how similar looking this arrest is to my vehicle arrest, minus this guy not getting ripped from his vehicle. However, in my arrest, no back up was called for, I was never pinned to the ground. I was treated respectfully after the initial taking from vehicle.

I respect police officers, strictly because of my two and small experiences. They have truly sh!tyy jobs. I've also met plenty of them in my years that are really good people.

At the same time, I can not help but say this is murder. I truly hope that they make an example out of this officer. Too often officers do get awaywith some rather unsavory acts.

 

[Alexx1401]

My heart and sympathy goes out to Mr. George Floyd's family and friends and on the surface it certainly looks bad but after 50 years as an investigator I know there may be a lot more to the story. Glads to see DOJ is investigating. One thing I have not heard is why they took him to the ground, did he suddenly become non compliant and fight the officers? he looked very compliant in the initial videos I saw but I guess people sometimes go a little bonkers when taken into custody.

If you can stomach it watch the video. The one holding him and the one holding the crowd back. One of them say they tried to put him in the car and he fought hard enough they could not get him in. Assuming this did happen I can see holding him on the ground till they get more help to hobble him if needed. You will not find any trainers telling people do do it by holding a knee on the neck.

 

[clearconscience]

My heart and sympathy goes out to Mr. George Floyd's family and friends and on the surface it certainly looks bad but after 50 years as an investigator I know there may be a lot more to the story. Glads to see DOJ is investigating. One thing I have not heard is why they took him to the ground, did he suddenly become non compliant and fight the officers? he looked very compliant in the initial videos I saw but I guess people sometimes go a little bonkers when taken into custody.

I always have a tough time feeling sorry for families.
They almost always know the victim/suspect is a criminal, drug addict, etc. what were they doing to help him or set him straight ?

They just love coming out after the fact ready to stir up the angry mobs, waiting for high priced lawyers to seek them out for huge paydays.

Chances are no one cared about this guy until they saw a way to benefit off from him.

 

[sobo]

Chances are no one cared about this guy until they saw a way to benefit off from him.

That right there, as sad as that is.
And in a month, they won't even remember his name...

 

[clearconscience]

Of course if they did come out and talk about him being a criminal or drug addict the media won't give it any attention. They just want to stir the pot of hate until it boils over to gain more juicy drama to air.

Like riots.


Just like the 13yo girl that was shot with a rubber bullet on the max train in portland.
The media blared the narrative this was a poor child.

Meanwhile her mother was Thanking LEOs saying she was trouble and out of control.

Did she make it on the news? Nope.

 

[SonicBlue03]

If you can stomach it watch the video. The one holding him and the one holding the crowd back. One of them say they tried to put him in the car and he fought hard enough they could not get him in. Assuming this did happen I can see holding him on the ground till they get more help to hobble him if needed. You will not find any trainers telling people do do it by holding a knee on the neck.

Alexx1401, spot on comment about the training. Additional video released showed them extracting him from his car, cuffing him, and then frog marching him to the cruiser where he fell down stepping off the curb. Possible he collapsed to make it difficult, but the video looks like he went down hard and awkward.

General comment - Threads like this normally are disappointing to see on this board. Instead of a healthy debate about citizen rights and correct vs. excessive use of force - as well as an acknowledgment that race and economic factors do create a disparity of response we instead end up with some of that, peppered with posts that would make the departed Reverend Butler proud.

Although it's also why I value free speech so much. I like it when the dummies raise their hands so everyone sees who they are.

 

[trevi]

Thanks. I grew up in a tough neighborhood. Played sports, fought all the time. Thought I knew something about fighting. Then I started judo and discovered that 135 lb, 60 year-old Asian men could toss me around like a rag doll. I realized I knew nothing. Seems like some cops haven't learned that lesson. Having a big gun and a big ego doesn't mean you know how to fight but in some ways makes you more vulnerable. Besides learning how to size people up, a good martial artist learns how to stay out of fights by using mind over emotion. If somebody forces you to fight, the goal isn't to hurt them but simply make them realize they can't win.

The last two sentences is loosely part of all martial arts creed. Important words to consider! When the opponent fails to see he cannot win, resort to Krav Maga - anything goes.

 

[trevi]

His death was more than likely caused from drugs, not the LEOs knee in his neck,

I strongly disagree.

Why?

In the initial video where he is taken from the car in cuffs to the sidewalk, he was breathing and talking normally. Crushing someones windpipe while they are one drugs does not produce a relatively calm demeanor, such a person would be wigging out. Granted, it is unknown at this moment if and what drugs he may have been on.

Claustrophobia is a real thing, and he may have had experience with being detained in a patrol vehicle. Persons with this disorder while restrained will often suffer a heightened response because they are 'captured' in a 'space' they feel too small or large in. Yes, you can have claustrophobia in a space you feel too small in, not very common.

 

[WAW44]

Was that smart of the cop? No
.....
These cops will most likely be hung out to dry for this by politically motivated Mayors, prosecutors, DAs, Judges, and of course the media.

Isn't that pretty much the definition of "Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" for the cop?

 

[RicInOR]

Five Thoughts on the George Floyd Story | National Review

After a night of riots, looting, and arson in Minneapolis to protest the police killing of George Floyd, five thoughts spring to mind…

www.nationalreview.com

 

[Certaindeaf]

They haven't allowed sleeper holds for a long time so it was OK since this wasn't one.

ffs