General Troubleshooting Striker Fired Pistol Problems.

[LuckySG]

The chamber was the first thing I checked. It is free of defects and rounds easily plunk in there. Would it cause any problems if I removed the extractor but reassembled everything else and cycled some rounds by hand?

No sir. Sorry I did not see this thread sooner or I would have invited you over to fix it. You are still welcome to bring it over and I will fix it.

 

[arakboss]

No sir. Sorry I did not see this thread sooner or I would have invited you over to fix it. You are still welcome to bring it over and I will fix it.

I appreciate the offer, what areas would you look at first?

 

[LuckySG]

I appreciate the offer, what areas would you look at first?

The extractor! My bet is a swap for a factory Glock part or a nicer Stainless Lone Wolf would do the trick. I have had issues with every third part MIM extractor save Zev (assuming they are MIM).

 

[arakboss]

The extractor! My bet is a swap for a factory Glock part or a nicer Stainless Lone Wolf would do the trick. I have had issues with every third part MIM extractor save Zev (assuming they are MIM).

I will replace it then. It is a very tight squeeze for the cases to fit under the claw. My factory glock with factory extractor is much looser. Thanks for the advice. If replacing the extractor doesn't do the trick I might take you up on the offer to look at it. Thanks again.

 

[LuckySG]

I will replace it then. It is a very tight squeeze for the cases to fit under the claw. My factory glock with factory extractor is much looser. Thanks for the advice. If replacing the extractor doesn't do the trick I might take you up on the offer to look at it. Thanks again.

Anytime! I have all the bits to help with the little emergencies for Glock and ARs. Getting closer to emergency room after hours status.

 

[Starbucket]

I thought my extractor spring was bad but it turned out to be carbon build-up preventing the extractor from fully seating. Removing the extractor should cause no problems other than being hard to remove a shell.

 

[arakboss]

...

I took down the slide and everything was normal. The safety plunger spring was in correctly. I went ahead and took a few swipes at the extractor claw and removed the TiN coating. I tried to hand cycle a live round and right away got an out of battery situation. I don't want to keep using live rounds to test it, so I will load up some dummy rounds this weekend or buy some snap cap rounds. If I can find a cheap extractor locally I might swap it out and see if that makes a difference. The breech face doesn't appear to have too much finish on it so I don't know what else would be causing the tight .044 extractor gap. I also don't know what the extractor gap spec is suppose to be? Everybody else seems to have a much larger gap Any glock armorers here have that spec?

I don't want to pigeon hole myself into blaming the extractor, so if anybody else has ideas of other components to look at let me know.

I put together some dummy rounds and cycled them two different ways. First method was to load up the mag and with slide locked back hit the slide release, then drop the mag, eject the round and lock the slide back, rinse and repeat. That resulted in 100% return to battery over maybe 30 attempts. Second method was to load up the mag and pull the slide back by hand and release it, rinse and repeat. That also resulted in 100% return to battery over another 30 or so attempts. If I gently let the slide return to battery it still hangs up but I think it is good enough to test out with live rounds. The wife and I are going to TCGC tomorrow and try it out. I haven't been to the range in over 18 months.

 

[arakboss]

...

I put together some dummy rounds and cycled them two different ways. First method was to load up the mag and with slide locked back hit the slide release, then drop the mag, eject the round and lock the slide back, rinse and repeat. That resulted in 100% return to battery over maybe 30 attempts. Second method was to load up the mag and pull the slide back by hand and release it, rinse and repeat. That also resulted in 100% return to battery over another 30 or so attempts. If I gently let the slide return to battery it still hangs up but I think it is good enough to test out with live rounds. The wife and I are going to TCGC tomorrow and try it out. I haven't been to the range in over 18 months.

I may be cruisin for a bruisin but if this Dagger/Alpha Slide combo runs 100% tomorrow, I am tempted to give Alpha Shooting Sports another try with this slide. I have a Poly 80 frame I bought from a member that needs a completion and a slide.

ALPHA EDC V1 Complete Slide for G17

ALPHA EDC V1 Complete Slide for G17

www.alphashootingsports.com

 

[arakboss]

...

I put together some dummy rounds and cycled them two different ways. First method was to load up the mag and with slide locked back hit the slide release, then drop the mag, eject the round and lock the slide back, rinse and repeat. That resulted in 100% return to battery over maybe 30 attempts. Second method was to load up the mag and pull the slide back by hand and release it, rinse and repeat. That also resulted in 100% return to battery over another 30 or so attempts. If I gently let the slide return to battery it still hangs up but I think it is good enough to test out with live rounds. The wife and I are going to TCGC tomorrow and try it out. I haven't been to the range in over 18 months.

Range Report:

I took the Dagger/Alpha SS combo to the range yesterday and it functioned much better but not perfect. I had a limited amount of factory ammo available as I grabbed a box of 380 instead of 9mm from my treadmill stash. The factory FMJ ammo had one light strikes and the reloaded HP had three light strikes. The last two mags of factory FMJ ammo I ran through it were 100%. The pistol doesn't like the Hollow Point reloads. Some failed to feed and I had three that did feed, fail to fire on first attempt. I reloaded them in the mag and they fired on second attempt. I definitely would rely on this pistol for a carry gun but I am going to hold off on sending FMJ through it before ordering another extractor or trying to file down the existing extractor any further.


My S&W 22 compact finally (it's been very reliable) starting giving me problems too. I had a couple of stove pipes and failures to pick up a round with federal automatch ammo. I don't think I have ever cleaned it since I bought it and it is looking really crusty so I will assume those malfunctions are maintenance related.

 

[arakboss]

I was messing around with my Dagger framed pistol again this morning. I have not resolved the failure to go into battery issues. I had my G22 out as well. I am still heavily leaning towards the extractor causing the hang ups. For testing this morning I was using dummy rounds that I loaded myself. If I put a round in the chamber and slowly release the slide both pistols will hang up and not go into to battery. With my Glock 22, I can apply a small amount of pressure with my thumb and push the slide into battery. With the Dagger framed pistol no amount of thumb pressure would push the slide into battery. I had to place the muzzle end of the frame on the table and push very hard on the back of the slide with my palm and was finally able to get the slide into battery.
Either too much tension on the extractor or the narrow extractor gap appears to be causing the problem.

I can file the extractor a bit more but is there an easy way to lessen the tension on the extractor?

 

[DirectDrive]

I was messing around with my Dagger framed pistol again this morning. I have not resolved the failure to go into battery issues. I had my G22 out as well. I am still heavily leaning towards the extractor causing the hang ups. For testing this morning I was using dummy rounds that I loaded myself. If I put a round in the chamber and slowly release the slide both pistols will hang up and not go into to battery. With my Glock 22, I can apply a small amount of pressure with my thumb and push the slide into battery. With the Dagger framed pistol no amount of thumb pressure would push the slide into battery. I had to place the muzzle end of the frame on the table and push very hard on the back of the slide with my palm and was finally able to get the slide into battery.
Either too much tension on the extractor or the narrow extractor gap appears to be causing the problem.

I can file the extractor a bit more but is there an easy way to lessen the tension on the extractor?

This "test" will not indicate a properly functioning pistol.
You NEVER put a round into the chamber of a semi-auto pistol and then close the slide.
If you start filing on the extractor you will be going deeper into the rabbit hole.
If you slingshot the slide onto an already chambered round, you can permanently damage the extractor.

The extractor is designed to grab the cartridge as it is stripped off of the magazine.

 

[arakboss]

This "test" will not indicate a properly functioning pistol.
You NEVER put a round into the chamber of a semi-auto pistol and then close the slide.
If you start filing on the extractor you will be going deeper into the rabbit hole.
If you slingshot the slide onto an already chambered round, you can permanently damage the extractor.

The extractor is designed to grab the cartridge as it is stripped off of the magazine.

I went ahead and filed the crumb out of the extractor and now I have it to the point where my thumb can push it into battery just like on my G22.

There is another problem that is unrelated and needs to be addressed. When the slide is locked back there is an excessive amount of loose barrel movement forward and rearward. My G22's barrel barely moves when the slide is locked back, the Dagger framed pistol's barrel moves at least an 1/8th of inch. If the barrel is forward the rounds hit the feed ramp and won't chamber, if the barrel is rearward then the rounds will feed fine. Any ideas on what is causing the excessive forward and rearward movement.


Here is photo of distance of excessive barrel movement when slide is locked back.







Here is movement of G22 barrel.

 

[RX-79G]

I went ahead and filed the crumb out of the extractor and now I have it to the point where my thumb can push it into battery just like on my G22.

Remember our conversation about push feed vs controlled round feed? Your Glock will never push feed, so you weren't modifying the correct part of the extractor to ever effect feeding.


A better test is to take an empty case and the slide and see how easily you can push the case rim up the breechface from below. That's the way Browning guns feed.

 

[RX-79G]

There is another problem that is unrelated and needs to be addressed. When the slide is locked back there is an excessive amount of loose barrel movement forward and rearward. My G22's barrel barely moves when the slide is locked back, the Dagger framed pistol's barrel moves at least an 1/8th of inch. If the barrel is forward the rounds hit the feed ramp and won't chamber, if the barrel is rearward then the rounds will feed fine. Any ideas on what is causing the excessive forward and rearward movement

This is unlikely to be an issue. But it is controlled by the dimensions of the lower barrel lug, the frame locking block and the fit of the frame locking block to the frame. You need to start by identify which part is loose in which other part: Locking block to frame, locking block to barrel.

 

[arakboss]

Remember our conversation about push feed vs controlled round feed? Your Glock will never push feed, so you weren't modifying the correct part of the extractor to ever effect feeding.

All I know is the extractor gap on the Dagger frame was much narrower than the extractor gap on the factory glock. Any ideas on the excessive barrel movement?

 

[RX-79G]

All I know is the extractor gap on the Dagger frame was much narrower than the extractor gap on the factory glock. Any ideas on the excessive barrel movement?

Edited first post and added a second.

 

[arakboss]

Remember our conversation about push feed vs controlled round feed? Your Glock will never push feed, so you weren't modifying the correct part of the extractor to ever effect feeding.


A better test is to take an empty case and the slide and see how easily you can push the case rim up the breechface from below. That's the way Browning guns feed.

I did that before filing on the extractor the first time months ago and it was very very difficult to slide a case up between the extractor claw and the breech face. The gap was too narrow imho but I could never find a spec on what the gap should be? I have filed it to the point where it is more comparable to my factory Glock's gap.

 

[RX-79G]

I did that before filing on the extractor the first time months ago and it was very very difficult to slide a case up between the extractor claw and the breech face. The gap was too narrow imho but I could never find a spec on what the gap should be? I have filed it to the point where it is more comparable to my factory Glock's gap.

This is a 1911 extractor, but should give you some idea where you modify an extractor:

 

[arakboss]

This is unlikely to be an issue. But it is controlled by the dimensions of the lower barrel lug, the frame locking block and the fit of the frame locking block to the frame. You need to start by identify which part is loose in which other part: Locking block to frame, locking block to barrel.

If I point the pistol to the sky so the barrel falls all the way rearward when slide is locked back and then slowly release the slide it will feed the rounds. If the pistol is held horizontal or pointed towards the ground with the barrel all the way forward, the rounds will hit the bottom of the feed ramp and not feed. I am not sure how to test the areas you mentioned. All the lower components appear tight in the frame.

 

[arakboss]

This is a 1911 extractor, but should give you some idea where you modify an extractor:

View attachment 1253278

I think the extractor problem is fixed. I have to figure out why the barrel is moving so far forward when the slide is locked back and then I can take it out for another test run.