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Gas Piston Conversions

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by Abe Froman, Nov 29, 2008.

  1. Abe Froman

    Abe Froman West of Salem Active Member

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    I am wondering if a gas piston conversion is a good route to go or if it is a waste of money. I anyone has any thoughts or experience with them please post. :thumbup:
     
  2. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    I think it's a waste of money, and a passing fad.

    I don't see the advantage of them, other than cleaning I guess.......and the extra money that they are charging for them, isn't worth it to me....anyway.
     
  3. elcid11

    elcid11 Beaverton New Member

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    +1,

    It is fixing something that isn't broken!!!!
     
  4. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    I think it's an excellent idea, and am excited to see how it plays out in active military service around the globe, such as the Norwegian military having adopted the H&K 416 and 417.

    Here's a video regarding various comparisons tests with the M4, XM8, FN SCAR, HK 416, etc...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HiuCdh6F2o8
    The stoppage #'s were...
    127 XM8 (suspended)
    226 FN SCAR
    233 H&K 416
    882 M4 (current issue)

    I'm not as enthusiastic about a direct gas impingement in the AR in the first place, although I spend most of my time firing one. Ironic.

    Considering that when I need my weapons most, they will be absolutely filthy, regardless of how hard I try to keep them clean. That is MY reality, but not everybody elses, especially people such as practical rifle competitors.

    Anyways, here's a read on one of the conversions on Defense Review..
    http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1109
     
  5. torpedoman

    torpedoman land of corrupt politicians Member

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    If it was needed the army and marine issue would have it so unless your planning on using your harder than they do i think it is a waste of money
     
  6. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Run the AR gas system for 3-5,000 rounds before cleaning. if it gets real dirty, it'll push the grime out. Just keep the carrier lubed, and feed it quality ammo.........no need for a piston.

    If keeping it clean is the only reason........see above.

    Spend the money on ammo.
     
  7. CharlesAFerg

    CharlesAFerg Beaverton Active Member

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    Could you repeat that? I don't understand what exactly you're asking.
     
  8. spengo

    spengo GLORIOUS CASCADIA Active Member

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    The XM8 melted. :laugh: Also it looks like a fish. Pic related!
    HK416 costs way too much and doesn't seem to be really that different from any other piston AR.
    FN Scar is cool! I want one but it also costs too much. I wish bushmaster wouldn't delay the ACR. :(

    I think the main thing is though, these are only very incremental steps up from the AR-15. The AR does not actually explode when you fire it after being submerged like HK's rigged videos claim, and it's quite reliable. You don't hear people complaining about the M249, but that takes waaayy more cleaning and work to keep it running and it's much less reliable. I think the AR-15 gets a bad rap from vietnam. Back then we issued them to poorly trained conscripts and told them it was a magical self-cleaning rifle and did not issue cleaning kits. Then we got the cheapest crappiest ammunition ever and add that to everyone dragging them around in muddy jungles and well, of *course* it's going to be unreliable. :p

    Anyway, my AR has never once jammed with .223 or 5.56. I do like to keep it clean though. :) I'll take the gun that rarely jams over the gun that never jams but melts under sustained fire.

    fishgun
     
  9. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    It would really depend upon the users requirements.

    If your requirements are:

    operating a short barreled AR
    shooting suppressed
    employing a volume of automatic fire
    unable to access consistent or quality ammunition

    or a combination of the above, then a piston upper may really be needed.

    So unless you are figuring on encountering any of the above, save your money, buy ammo, and get quality training.
     
  10. RickB

    RickB Greater Seattle area Member

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    There are tests of a few piston conversions and piston rifles in the latest edition of USPSA's Front Sight magazine. It's geared toward competition, but a lot of the advancements in personal combat weapons have come from competition, over the last ten years, especially. The conclusion is that some part of the gun is going to get hot, and some part is going to get dirty, and the piston system just relocates both. The writer seemed to prefer the "soft, gooey" residue in his stock AR to the hard, dry residue in the piston system.
     
  11. jonathon

    jonathon Pendleton, OR Member

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    This has been my experience.. my rifle has never had a non magazine related malfunction either.

    I will say.. if I were going to run a can, I would want a piston. Way to much crap comes back in your face with the DI guns. This is WA tho.. we can own them but we can't shoot them :laugh:
     
  12. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    We can own and shoot them......why not?

    Yes, gotta pay to play with them that's for sure.
     
  13. snew

    snew Hillsboro, OR Active Member

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    My son was in Army boot camp this summer. He was told not to fire his weapon on the 3 rnd burst because that was a sure way to jam it up.

    It'd be funny if it weren't so sad.

    Would a gas poiston make it better? I can't say for sure. What I do know is that hot, dirty gas running into your receiver is not a recipe for longevity no matter who says it's fine.

    That said, I'm betting no one on this board is going to use their rifle with such vigor as to warrant a change.
     
  14. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Very good point......how many here put a few thousand rounds, say 2-3,000 a year thru their AR's? On a consistent basis, every year?

    I would guess not many. With that, the piston isn't worth the extra money.
     
  15. Buddhalux

    Buddhalux Hillsboro, Oregon Active Member

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    The most likely are two reasons why your son was told that.

    1: Basic and AIT rifles are abused by thousands of trainees annually. The vast majority know nothing about weapons besides from the movies. The unit doesn't get a large weapons and munitions fund compared to other active duty units because their training units. Less money means less capital to keep the weapons standards high.

    2: The army was horrible at recycling magazines. Magazines are desposible to the army and they do not know how to maintain them. Everytime I had a jam it was magazine related. Alot of the time you'd find malformed feed ramps or just shot springs. Either way we had to weed those bad mags out on the range so we didn't have to find out on the battlefield where it cost you and/or your buddies their lives.