Washington Garfield WA man gets 2 years in jail for homemade cannon

[jimbo13]

Not necessarily. Something like this could made fairly easily with a little ingenuity and thought.

I remember guys making marble guns with 3/4" galvee pipe and a screw cap on one end. Drill a hole in the cap for a firecracker fuse, drop a marble down the pipe and light the fuse.

A basic breech loader would take a little more work and maybe some low level machine work but still is feasible with minimal equipment.

I guess he got in trouble because he made the cannon from an 80% lower receiver kit and didn't put a serial number on it. AKA a " ghost gun"!

 

[SavageGerbil]

Initially these AR uppers we're OK then ATF started requiring a tax stamp to own one.
GOV wants to tax all the fun stuff, then Biden wants to tax everything out of the reach of the average citizen

Going off a guess here, but I'm wondering if he didn't try to make one of these himself. The actual can cannons are engineered pretty goofy, it's got a block on the barrel piece that won't let a projectile exit the barrel, only allowing for a blank. I think this is how they're able to sell it as a launcher, and not a firearm with a barrel of more than 1/2"

Skipping that step would leave you on the wrong side of the law. If you're gonna make a cannon, either go with black powder or do the paperwork and pay the tax. Frankly, I'd go black powder every time. If I'm gonna spend the NFA tax money and wait that long, I don't want to waste it on a blank-driven cannon.

 

[billdeserthills]

I guess he got in trouble because he made the cannon from an 80% lower receiver kit and didn't put a serial number on it. AKA a " ghost gun"!

He made those before the law requiring a serial number was enacted

I would donate to this guys fund if I knew what it was

 

[ravib123]

Welcome to my ignore list. Unbelievable. U really should consider moving to California.

Wow, I gotta say… is your position so weak that someone disagreeing with you must belong in california and on your block list?

Guy committed crime, guy goes to jail. I think we all would rather have criminals in jail.

Might you have a soft spot for a criminal with a cannon? Perhaps so… but not everyone does.

I see criminal activity and I call the police, why? Because I have a much harder time getting a justified homicide than a police officer.

 

[bigguynail]

Does someone make some kind of "kit" to do this or something? If not that would be some impressive "garage Gun Smithing" to do

Guy in Skagit county was making mole traps out of pipe using 12 gauge shells went to jail because pipe even weld to 50lb steel plate was 8" long

 

[RVTECH]

Well, isn't there an "in plain sight" rule?

Yes there is - it's called the 'Plain view doctrine'.

lii_extractinator

www.law.cornell.edu

If the cannon were in 'plain view' then there is no argument.

NOW if the LEOs had gone poking around the house in unobtrusive areas that had no relevance to the call and found something illegal then it would be a different story.

Many years ago in Oregon there was a situation where this resulted in legal issues.

LEOs had a warrant to search for a person in house. Ok they arrive, person not there so they start looking around and look in a refer and discover fresh deer ready to butcher - and this was out of season. LEOs cite the resident for poaching. Long story short charges dropped against the poacher because a search was conducted in a area where a person was not likely to be. I don't remember the exact legalese for this but you get the idea.

 

[bbbass]

Yes there is - it's called the 'Plain view doctrine'.

lii_extractinator

www.law.cornell.edu

Plain View Doctrine

Primary tabs

The plain view doctrine allows a police officer to seize objects not described in a warrant when executing a lawful search or seizure if he observes the object in plain view and has probable cause to believe that it is connected with criminal activities. The incriminating character of the object should be immediately identifiable.

Again, the critical question is whether a welfare check is a "lawful search and seizure". I understand the prohibition on fishing expeditions inside one's home, but I presume that in this case, SOMEBODY invited them in and IF the cannon was in plain view then..... DON'T DO THAT. As was pointed out in a diff thread.

 

[RVTECH]

Again, the critical question is whether a welfare check is a "lawful search and seizure"

Most likely no - in the basic sense of a 'welfare check' - but 'plain view doctrine' would would change the whole outcome if an illegal item were in 'plain view'.

 

[Barefootdog]

I don't know all the details of this case, and this is only my opinion. A recent USSC ruling, Caniglia v. Strom (05/17/2021), addressed the issue of search and seizure while performing a "welfare check" Caniglia v. Strom (05/17/2021). That case was firearm related, and said search and seizure was ruled unconstitutional. He would have grounds for appeal, but the guilty plea would make it difficult.

Read the ruling. There are a number of discussions online regarding this case and how it will be applied. Your example cites probable cause. A "welfare check" is not probable cause nor reasonable suspicion. The 4th Amendment, especially as it applies within ones home, should be held as sacred.

I believe two earlier posts are significant regarding limitations of various types of forced law enforcement access to your private property.

Details matter and specific words have specific meanings/effects in the law. It's easy for a layman to improperly conflate common understanding versus technical understanding.

 

[RVTECH]

From the Law Dictionary on 'Welfare check'

Legal Considerations

No court order is required for the police to conduct a welfare check. Essentially, as long as they have reasonable grounds to believe that an inhabitant in a residence in endangered, they can legally enter the premises. They typically knock on the door and await a response before announcing their law enforcement affiliation. If they still receive no response, they may enter the property. This is particularly useful when someone inside the house is unconscious or otherwise unable to respond. The ability to enter the property without permission means that emergency aid can be rendered. In some cases, this is a life-saving intervention.

 

[rdb241]

Initially these AR uppers we're OK then ATF started requiring a tax stamp to own one.

Sooo, when did this happen? I am up on all the anti gun stuff and have not heard one word about registering a Can Canon upper. You may be confused on the ruling the ATF did regarding .50cal uppers a couple of years ago and not can canons.

 

[Barefootdog]

From the original cited article it doesn't appear the canon owner was non responsive or unconscious or otherwise unable to respond or in need of life saving intervention. Nor does the article indicate the owner was endangered.

Something about this doesn't smell right.....
Fact is the guy could very well be bat shizintsky crazy.
But somethings not right here.

Just my opinion.

Also....brought this in...$22 on Amazon...Small money good read.
https://www.wklegaledu.com/barnettblackman-conlaw-100cases

 

[bbbass]

Most likely no - in the basic sense of a 'welfare check' - but 'plain view doctrine' would would change the whole outcome if an illegal item were in 'plain view'.

I has been asserted that it doesn't apply during a welfare check, that they would have to go get a warrant and come back, or wait for one. But there is a lot we don't know about the particulars of this case, so it's ALL just speculation.

 

[RVTECH]

But there is a lot we don't know about the particulars of this case, so it's ALL just speculation.

I am thinking this is very correct and what we DON'T know is most likely the cause for the outcome we have read about.

 

[338LM]

Read the article...."Investigators went to Kimberling's home to conduct a welfare check and found the cannon".

Just asking 1) where did the request for a welfare check originate and why? and 2) Is it permissible to turn such a limited authorization for access into an open ended search for chargeable offenses?

Both are legitimate questions.
If you some have legal expertise I would like to hear it.

Barefoot you are correct... who requested the welfare check.. there must be probable cause for any kind of search warrant.. welfare checks are not probable cause..

 

[hawmanai]

I was not aware they did a redesign that made them not require stamp, I stand corrected. At the time I considered buying one they did not need a stamp then they ruled it needed a stamp and I forgot about getting one.

https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/a...x-products-can-cannon-no-longer-a-nfa-weapon/

 

[ilikegunspdx]

From the original cited article it doesn't appear the canon owner was non responsive or unconscious or otherwise unable to respond or in need of life saving intervention. Nor does the article indicate the owner was endangered.

Something about this doesn't smell right.....
Fact is the guy could very well be bat shizintsky crazy.
But somethings not right here.

Just my opinion.

Also....brought this in...$22 on Amazon...Small money good read.
https://www.wklegaledu.com/barnettblackman-conlaw-100cases

Yea kind of makes u think a person in power and/or someone with a personal grudge initiated the welfare check doesn't it? Or at the least they called atf. Personally I hope the word gets around that community that certain people will call the atf on you (that should take about a half hour in a town that size ha ha).

Related to this topic (and hopefully not too far off topic) it seems to me that all gun owners should be aware of red flag laws in your area. Imo red flag laws could be used by a disgruntled coworker, someone with a grudge, etc. as a means to confiscate your firearms. They could call in a red flag on you with a made up story. This is why I also believe all responsible gun owners should consider having 2 "safes", or storage cabinets or similar. One should be very visible with a junky gun or two that might be confiscated under such a scenario. The second is undetectable (and known only by you) and holds any weapons of value. Just my 2 cents...

 

[billdeserthills]

Yea kind of makes u think a person in power and/or someone with a personal grudge initiated the welfare check doesn't it? Or at the least they called atf. Personally I hope the word gets around that community that certain people will call the atf on you (that should take about a half hour in a town that size ha ha).

Related to this topic (and hopefully not too far off topic) it seems to me that all gun owners should be aware of red flag laws in your area. Imo red flag laws could be used by a disgruntled coworker, someone with a grudge, etc. as a means to confiscate your firearms. They could call in a red flag on you with a made up story. This is why I also believe all responsible gun owners should consider having 2 "safes", or storage cabinets or similar. One should be very visible with a junky gun or two that might be confiscated under such a scenario. The second is undetectable and holds any weapons of value. Just my 2 cents...

Same way Waco started

 

[Mike_M57]

In the '80s/'90s, when I still lived in California, my best friend built two different black powder cannons from materials he had around the shop.

Projectiles for the first one were 26oz. canisters of Morton salt, soaked in water and then 'cured' in a smoker until they were one solid chunk of salt. We used a shop rag as a bore patch and were able to launch the salt canisters a good 300 yards or more with a nice 'poof' of salt on impact.

The other cannon had a smaller bore, the perfect size for golf balls, again using shop rags as patching material. I'd given him a ladder-style rear sight I had from some old military rifle and he mounted that on the cannon along with some kind of front sight. That one would shoot golf balls out of sight, but accuracy was non-existent.

We had MUCH better luck with the OTHER projectiles he made for that cannon...

As it turned out, round 1-lb. lead fishing sinkers are almost exactly the same size as golf balls, and back then were dirt cheap. Just cut off the wire loop and they were good to go. And the added sights proved to be quite useful.

Fun times. Probably get the firing squad for doing that these days.