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PDF: https://media.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/pub/files/201913340.pdf
USCA11 Case: 19-13340 Date Filed: 02/08/2022

William David Powell,
Patrick Snook

"Lawsuits involving claims that officers used deadly force in violation of the Fourth Amendment often involve tragic circumstances. This one does. Just after midnight one evening in June of 2016, Henry County, Georgia, police sergeant Patrick Snook — who was at the wrong house because of imprecise dispatch directions — shot and killed William David Powell, who was innocent of any crime and standing in his driveway. He was holding a pistol because he and his wife thought they had heard a prowler"

"The qualified immunity issue before us is the familiar one of whether clearly established law put Snook on notice that firing the shots he did violated David Powell's constitutional rights."



For us, if we hear something outside and investigate - we need to be prepared - animal, person - a bad actor, a neighbor, a cop

If it had been a bad actor, and not an officer, how far could the homeowner have taken it? He may have been stopping a Felony Theft?

There are several, pg4-8, pages worth of description on how the cops came to be at this house at this time, and how the couple came to be outside


"Sharon Powell had a sense that David was looking at someone. He started to raise his right arm — the one holding the pistol — and got the pistol hip-high. While David was doing that, Snook went down to one knee to make himself a smaller target and rapidly fired three shots with his rifle. Sharon testified that only a "very short time" –– "[l]ike one second it felt like" –– passed between when David started to raise his gun and when Snook began firing. "
 
boogoo meme.jpg
 
I'd say that usually, "verbal orders" are issued.

"Police, drop the gun!"

BUT......I wasn't there and there are usually more sides to it. So......

Should I read the entire link?
No_Time_Fo_Dat.jpg
Beyond all the allegations and the facts. Play the RACE CARD and things could still be different.

So whatever. It goes to trial, settled or ends with ______.

Aloha, Mark
 
1) Do not go looking for trouble...literally and figuratively. Seldom is going outside of your house to hunt/look for a bad guy ever going to be a good decision. If you think you got a problem outside, lock things down, call the police, and take up a defensible position behind cover (if you got it) inside, and wait for the police to do their job.

2) If you are out in the world, out on your property, or even in your house, you have got to get the gun out of your hand when the police roll in. And you may not have much...or any...warning that the police have arrived. Again, I would suggest that leaving the safety of your home to go hunt for a bad guy might not be the best course of action. And if you do go out, walking around with a gun in your hand might not be the best choice either. Having your gun holstered with your hand on it MIGHT be a better option. But there are tons of variables here so we can't speak in absolutes.

3) Also be aware of other CCW holders and various friendlies that might mistake you for a bad guy. Getting your weapon holstered as soon as it is safe to do so is probably in your best interest

4) Don't forget that bad guys sometimes have friends.

Good luck...and may the odds be ever in your favor!
 
"Sounds like" another sad case. I would be interested in seeing some media reporting on it if there ever was some? As others have mentioned many times. Heading outside with gun in hand to "look" for things will often let you find real trouble. Now did the LEO see him and just drop him with no warning? Kind of doubt it but again be nice to know a little about how it all went. This is a LOT like the story where one off duty LEO went outside to try to arrest a scum. Let the scum stab him and get control of his gun, then was standing there gun in hand when an on duty LEO rolls in and shoots first LEO. Many got real mad but of course it was easy for them to sit at a keyboard and tell all they were far more skilled and would not do that.
 
Clearly this is a tragedy.

1) Do not go looking for trouble...literally and figuratively. Seldom is going outside of your house to hunt/look for a bad guy ever going to be a good decision. If you think you got a problem outside, lock things down, call the police, and take up a defensible position behind cover (if you got it) inside, and wait for the police to do their job.
I remember a training from Mas Ayoob, that once you call 911, you have declared a "Free Fire Zone"
Still walking around inside your own home might get you shot thru a window. (Stay alert to defend yourself, don't look like a bad actor)


In this case the Home Owner had not made the call.


And, haven't seen a reply pop up yet, but when the police in your area a 30+ minutes away, do you have time to call and wait?

Can't you stop someone from felony theft- taking your items worth enough to be felonies - boat, car, catalytic converters (1500+) ?
(stop, not kill)

How many on NWFA will say/ have said "I don't call the police"



Again, I would suggest that leaving the safety of your home to go hunt for a bad guy might not be the best course of action.
When the homeowner went out, in this case, they thought it was a prowler as the article/lawsuit tells us. In many cases, we might be thinking this is an animal - coon, coyote, cougar. In city/suburbia, could be your neighbor or someone wanting to go thru your trash (ie the FBI)


What are our takeaways?


Where I live, I am more likely to come out of my house making noise - "Hey Get Out of There ... "
If someone is on my driveway, I am not overly concerned, it happens on a regular basis and I do no park my car outside, no boat/trailer.
If someone has gotten to suburban back yard, thru the locked gate or over the 7ft fence ... I am going with a long gun (shot gun is my 'primary')

Is that not a reasonable ( I won't say good) choice?
 
How to prevent the Titanic from sinking? Plenty of potential blame to go around. Although, the dispatcher should have relayed the caller's info verbatim. And it was already a shots fired call.
 
Clearly this is a tragedy.


I remember a training from Mas Ayoob, that once you call 911, you have declared a "Free Fire Zone"
Still walking around inside your own home might get you shot thru a window. (Stay alert to defend yourself, don't look like a bad actor)


In this case the Home Owner had not made the call.


And, haven't seen a reply pop up yet, but when the police in your area a 30+ minutes away, do you have time to call and wait?

Can't you stop someone from felony theft- taking your items worth enough to be felonies - boat, car, catalytic converters (1500+) ?
(stop, not kill)

How many on NWFA will say/ have said "I don't call the police"




When the homeowner went out, in this case, they thought it was a prowler as the article/lawsuit tells us. In many cases, we might be thinking this is an animal - coon, coyote, cougar. In city/suburbia, could be your neighbor or someone wanting to go thru your trash (ie the FBI)


What are our takeaways?


Where I live, I am more likely to come out of my house making noise - "Hey Get Out of There ... "
If someone is on my driveway, I am not overly concerned, it happens on a regular basis and I do no park my car outside, no boat/trailer.
If someone has gotten to suburban back yard, thru the locked gate or over the 7ft fence ... I am going with a long gun (shot gun is my 'primary')

Is that not a reasonable ( I won't say good) choice?
LOT'S of "what if's". Bottom line. If LEO's are coming looking for some scum and you are there with gun in hand, you may well become a target. An amazing number of people "think" they could roll up, see someone with a gun in hand and not shoot. Easy to do from the keyboard. So again, if someone goes outside with gun in hand they are taking a risk. If they think the risk is worth it? By all means grab that gun and head out. :s0092:
 
And, haven't seen a reply pop up yet, but when the police in your area a 30+ minutes away, do you have time to call and wait?

Can't you stop someone from felony theft- taking your items worth enough to be felonies - boat, car, catalytic converters (1500+) ?
(stop, not kill)
There may or may not be time to call depending on what is going down. Someone rummaging around outside is a different situation than someone coming through a bedroom window.

As for waiting (assuming you can and did call) and stopping someone from theft, I would ask, "how much is your STUFF worth to you?"

I, of course, can't answer that. I have no idea what your stuff is and how much it means to you. I will simply say that most STUFF is replaceable...especially if it's insured. And if your stuff is outside, you likely have no idea what you're walking into...is there one strung out unarmed junkie out there or four armed individuals that you can't see?

Also consider how a court case may play out if you go outside the safety of your home and end up having to shoot someone. It may very well be justified by the letter of the law. But that doesn't mean an aggressive leftist DA won't try to charge you anyway. And I would not want to have to bet that the jury will see it in my favor. You could be well within the law but some people will still feel that you never should have left your house. And if you get 12 people like that on a jury, it's going to be a very bad day for you...over STUFF.
 

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