Quantcast
  1. Sign up now and join over 35,000 northwest gun owners. It's quick, easy, and 100% free!

FTF Transactions?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by jefe, Feb 15, 2012.

  1. jefe

    jefe Portland Active Member

    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    103
    I realize this may be a "touchy subject," but there is a tremendous problem with participants in FTF transactions. What I emphasize here is residency verification through quick glances of state IDs. Don't get me wrong, I understand and feel for both sides of the argument: (1) privacy rights, ID checks are intrusions, etc.; (2) pure legality. I am relatively young (30). I wasn't around prior to the crazy gun law legislation, but I'm imaginative and understand how unreal the present situation is (background checks, restriction on FTF to resident state, etc.). On the flip-side, to those who "poo-poo" requests for quick ID checks: I don't want to "frak" up and find myself in prison. For the most part, participants in a FTF transfer do not know each other personally. While both parties seek "trust" in the transaction, those who "poo-poo" residency concerns (while I feel for you) need to realize that the seller/buyer is not asking for a background check or a "bill of sale." To appease residency concerns in a FTF transaction isn't the end of the world; it ensures each party is safe. Furthermore, to work together and to ensure the residency of both parties means we give "big brother" little to no "ammunition" (at least with this issue) with which to fight gun ownership.

    This isn't meant to be a political speech. Rather, I've had great difficulty in selling firearms in a timely fashion, because for every FTF buyer who legally qualifies I have to deal with 1 out-of-state buyer looking to trick me/convince me to a FTF, or 1 privacy advocate who belittles my request for ID--my request for self-preservation.

    Am I too harsh? Thoughts/comments?
     
  2. sheepdip

    sheepdip Redland Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,769
    Likes Received:
    1,064
    i dont have a problem showing id to prove residency, i do have a bit of a problem with someone copying all the info on my id. as far as i am concerned a quick check of the other persons id should be all that is required. a bill of sale if one party or the other thinks it is needed is ok by me.
     
    Redcap and (deleted member) like this.
  3. drew

    drew OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,052
    Likes Received:
    970
    A check of the id and asking if they're still a resident of that state and can legally own a firearm is all that's really necessary.
     
    mjbskwim, djm68, Redcap and 3 others like this.
  4. krkruse

    krkruse Salem area Active Member

    Messages:
    228
    Likes Received:
    66
    I never ask for ID, mostly because I dont think about it. If they look young then Id ask.
    If someone asks for mine I gladly show them my ODL or CHL. I dont care with the internet they can figure out a whole lot more than matter to me .
     
  5. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,792
    Likes Received:
    597
    I don't see what the big deal is. I ask for a bill of sale sometimes and sometimes I don't. I don't have a problem signing a bill of sale either. At the very least I ask to see a valid Oregon drivers license and preferrably a CHL. If someone isn't willing to provide either I won't do business with them, but I've never had that happen.

    If someone gave me some BS about not providing ID because it's a privacy issue, I would be very suspicious and likely tell them to go pizz up a rope.
     
  6. branson4020

    branson4020 Forest Grove, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    47
    There was just another thread about "what happens if I sell somebody a gun and something bad happens..."
    I posted that all you can do is follow the law and have a paper trail to prove it. To that end, I think the buyer should provide the seller with a bill of sale including his DL #. The seller should provide the buyer with a receipt including the weapon serial #.

    Trust but verify.
     
  7. rolandson

    rolandson Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    98
    Personally, I want a record of having disposed of a firearm should it turn up latter under unpleasant circumstances. CYA and the simple reality that I don't want somebody I don't know coming into my home and I am not about to do transactions in a parking lot. To that end, I put them on consignment at a gun shop.
     
  8. jefe

    jefe Portland Active Member

    Messages:
    300
    Likes Received:
    103
    To place my rant into context: until an hour ago, I was working out the meet up details for a FTF sale of an SKS. When the potential buyer and myself worked out the fine details to where the sale was inevitable (final price, place to meet as the seller was coming from a great distance), I thought to go over all aspects of the sale procedure prior to our meet. I mentioned that I accept a lower price in exchange for a meet location closer to Portland. I then politely asked for us to also glance at/quickly exchange/etc. our state IDs. I wasn't asking for a bill of sale, or a background check; it wasn't as though I was going to photograph or copy down the buyer's info. I just wanted to see the word "Oregon" and the holographic film on an ID. I only wanted further assurance that we were both residents (one would think the buyer would want also certainty of my residency). The buyer "blew up" in the response email, stating that if he wanted someone to look at his ID, he would purchase the rifle from a gun shop. I can empathize with that position, but it isn't as though we're proceeding with a FTF over a computer, car, bag of oranges, etc. To the State and Federal governments, we're "bad people" exchanging a "dangerous good." The last thing I want is to lose everything in my life (house, wife, career) over the sale of a rifle.
     
  9. The Duck

    The Duck Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    109
    I just make sure the same name is on both their ID and our Bill-Of-Sale... Besides that, its all on them... (same state of resident of course)
     
  10. rolandson

    rolandson Oregon Active Member

    Messages:
    164
    Likes Received:
    98
    If it doesn't pass the smell test....
    If it were me, I'd walk.
     
    krkruse and (deleted member) like this.
  11. Redcap

    Redcap Lewis County, WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,990
    Likes Received:
    2,731
    I simply ask to see ID (to prove residency) and have the buyer assert that they aren't a felon, which is only slightly more than legally required. After that, cash and carry.
     
  12. DinhRose

    DinhRose Austin, Texas (Ex-Pat of SE PDX) Active Member

    Messages:
    800
    Likes Received:
    109
    Personally i don't see any trouble with checking a person's ID. Just be honest about why you want to see it.
     
    Redcap and (deleted member) like this.
  13. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,674
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    Also note that many states issue drivers lisc to non US citizens.. watch it
     
  14. Cougfan2

    Cougfan2 Hillsboro, OR Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,792
    Likes Received:
    597
    Jefe, If I were you I would run away fast from a guy that blew up when I asked just to see ID. Can't know for sure, but I would be suspicious that he either isn't a resident of your state or can't legally own firearms.
     
    AMT, enjr4, Redcap and 9 others like this.
  15. branson4020

    branson4020 Forest Grove, OR Active Member

    Messages:
    158
    Likes Received:
    47
    If he's got a DL proving state residency, does the buyer legally have to be a US citizen?
     
  16. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,593
    Likes Received:
    1,480
    ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

    Q: To whom may an unlicensed person transfer firearms under the GCA?
    A person may sell a firearm to an unlicensed resident of his State, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may loan or rent a firearm to a resident of any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes, if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law. A person may sell or transfer a firearm to a licensee in any State. However, a firearm other than a curio or relic may not be transferred interstate to a licensed collector.

    [18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(d), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]



    So I have a gun for sale. Guy says he wants it. We meet and I dont have a bad feeling about the deal. What "reasonable cause" do I have to believe there is a problem? Now being that you live in a boarder state I would look at the plates on the car the person shows up in. If they are in state then I would have no "reasonable cause" they are not from in state.
     
  17. Blitzkrieg

    Blitzkrieg WA Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    9,674
    Likes Received:
    4,849
    IMO yes
     
  18. Unka-Boo

    Unka-Boo Milwaukie Active Member

    Messages:
    923
    Likes Received:
    225
    Resident aliens can own guns.....



    As to the OP....ya....walk away....I've bought/sold my fair share over the last 10 years of internetting ( is that a word? ), only once have I backed out due to other person giving me a scketchy vibe...all I ask is to glance at their ID to make sure we reside in the same state, shake hands and get on my way.
     
    jefe and (deleted member) like this.
  19. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,374
    Likes Received:
    7,587
    Up here we just worry if they say eh all the time. Otherwise cash is king. Well I did tell the 4yo to go get his big brother.
    We have so many back woods people here,looks aren't much of a determination,you just have to use that 6th sense and hope the buyer isn't just become a bad guy.
    ID doesn't tell you what the guy has done in the last 24hrs.And there is no obligation to get any ID or bill of sale.
    Where does it say that you have to ask the buyer if the are a felon,or otherwise not able to own a firearm?
    I believe it only says something about if you knowingly sell to someone who can't buy a firearm.

    For down there,I would just ask for ID and if they said no,tell them to pi$$ up a rope? lol love that one

    When selling firearms,you should always do what YOU feel is best.If the other guy has a problem with that,then too bad.Sell to someone else. But do what you feel is best.Don't argue,just say we are done here.
    I do it the way I want,but will most likely conform to most conditions if the seller seems straight and the gun is what I really want.
    If you never sell or buy,then you may need to change your standards
     
  20. Mac_Fan

    Mac_Fan Beaverton Active Member

    Messages:
    436
    Likes Received:
    98
    I can't remember who it was but one of the members here drove to my house for a FTF and called the state police to see if the handgun I was selling had been reported stolen. I was on my lunch break standing there in my f-ing corrections uniform. Jesus Christ!