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FTE's & FTF's with new KKM 40-9mm barrel in a Glock 22

Discussion in 'Handgun Discussion' started by 142, Jan 3, 2012.

  1. 142

    142 Rogue Valley Member

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    Hi guys -

    I'm hoping for some words of wisdom in regard to some problems I'm having with a brand new KKM "drop in" (that's what I did) .40 to 9mm conversion barrel. I had the opportunity today to try out the new barrel in my 4th gen Glock 22. I purchased a brand new (factory) Glock 17 mag to go along with the barrel. On the very first shot I had a FTE, then the remaining 16 rounds fired without incident. I also had several FTF's in the duration of the 50rd box of ammo. The barrel seems perfectly fine to me, as does the magazine and I have never had a single FTF, FTE or hiccup of any kind out of this firearm. I'm thinking the problem may be that the ammunition was too light to fully cycle the slide, but it's my understanding that both the Gen 4 G22 and G17 use the same spring weight, so that wouldn't make sense. Please correct me if I'm wrong. The info below is the setup I was using when I experienced the problems. (By the way, when it works :laugh: the accuracy of that KKM barrel is stellar. I was very impressed shooting 15 yards with it.) I must have had roughly a dozen FTF's/FTE's out of 50 rounds. Unfortunately I didn't have any other 9mm loads with me to try.

    Gen 4 Glock 22 - 450 rounds of .40 through it
    KKM Drop In .40-9mm conversion barrel
    Glock 17 magazine
    Federal 115gr FMJ's (the cheapest ones I could find)

    First shot with new barrel:
    120.JPG
    ...And - Stove pipe:
    174.JPG

    Failure to feed with GF shooting:
    169ftf.jpg

    Round went "primer up" in mag during FTE:confused::
    218fte.jpg
    Any thoughts or input will be appreciated -

    Thanks!
     
  2. 1stIDFMP

    1stIDFMP North of Salem, south of Portland Active Member

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    It is my understanding that the extractor for the 9mm is a different size than the .40, which might be the cause for the FTE.
     
  3. misterarman

    misterarman Vancouver,Wa. USA Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Not an expert on the subject but it sounds to me like you have it figured out with the ammo. Not enough energy in either direction to make it function properly.
    I would try some hotter ammo first. I think these are supposed to "Match Grade" barrels and depending on whose description you read they may need some fitting. The barrel could just be too tight and is hanging up.
    Iv'e got a gen3 G-22 with a Glock 40 and 357 sig barrel and a Lone wolf Dual Ported 357 sig barrel with a Storm Lake 40 Dual Ported barrel on the way and love the conversion feature. I don't change recoil springs and they all work great. I had a KKM 9mm conversion barrel with an extra recoil spring (weight unknown) and preferred shooting 9mm in my G17.
     
  4. 142

    142 Rogue Valley Member

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    I'm not sure about the extractors varying in size, but that wouldn't cause a failure to feed regardless. Good food for thought though. Thanks for the reply.
     
  5. 142

    142 Rogue Valley Member

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    I'm betting its the ammo but good thinking none the less. This is a "match grade" barrel but it's also specifically called a "drop in" barrel and I was initially a little suspicious of it having a little more play in the slide than the factory barrel when the gun is broken down so I don't think it's too tight. When the gun is reassembled it locks in at least factory tight. Zero play in it. I have not shot a Glock 17 but I really liked the way the 9mm felt with the KKM barrel in my G22. Very smooth recoil and the impacts on target were much closer to true point of aim than what I have come accustom to with the factory .40 barrel. I'm still able to hold 6 o' clock as I would with the factory configuration but not nearly as much. Thanks for the reply. I'll let you know what happens with hotter loads.
     
  6. bruzer

    bruzer Grants Pass, OR Well-Known Member

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    I too have the Gen 4 G22. Here is my personal opinions based on actual shooting. THE RECOIL SPRING IS DIFFERENT BETWEEN 9mm and .40 GENERATION 4 GLOCKS. Using the stock Gen4 .40 cal recoil spring MAY/WILL cause Fail to Feed , Stovepipes and slide fail to lock back last round using target ammo (WWB, Federal Bulk). I have personally shot hundreds of rounds of the target stuff with few problems, give the gun over to my Wife and one failure after another. Load up a magazine with +P ammo and she will have ZERO failures (I will repeat, Zero Failures). In fact the recoil FEELS so much better with +P ammo using the stock .40 recoil spring and it is nice to have ZERO failures. I am hoping to get a stock Gen 4 G17 recoil spring so my Wife can enjoy a failure free gun using the target ammo but so far Glock is on their 4th upgrade of 9mm recoil springs and I am waiting. Using the conversion barrel 9mm shoots Point of Aim perfectly. It helped me get past the flinch I had with the .40. For RANGE ONLY I have loaded up the G22 mags with 9mm and they shoot OK (I will repeat, For Range Only). Used the conversion for speed steel once and had no failures.

    So with all that said, YOU ARE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. It is the ammo causing your failures with the stock Gen 4 .40 recoil spring.

    These companies that make conversion barrels really are Drop In and Shoot. NO NEED TO WORRY ABOUT THE EJECTOR OR THE EXTRACTOR. BUT if you use the stock recoil spring and weak ammo you MAY have issues. Really no different than competition shooting. A competition gun will have different recoil springs for shooting different powered loads.
    Good luck,
    Mike
     
  7. 142

    142 Rogue Valley Member

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    Thanks for all the insight, Mike. I appreciate it. I'll certainly post an update when I run some hotter 9mm through it. In regard to the point of aim / point of impact varying between the barrels I really enjoyed the POA I experience today. It felt more natural to me than the super 6 hold I've gotten used to with the .40. Definitely feel like I can shoot with better precision, especially after a couple hundred more rounds. Not knocking the .40 caliber by any means. I find that it shoots very accurately (although I have heard many opposing opinions on the matter) it's just the factory Glock point of aim that I don't like. Of course adjustable sights will also solve that. Anyway - Thanks again.
     
  8. bruzer

    bruzer Grants Pass, OR Well-Known Member

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    My G22 came with Glock night sights and point of impact is point of aim. Now I have a Tactical Solutions .22 conversion slide and it comes with stock Glock sights. If you want point of impact at center mast point of aim is 6 o'clock. Hope that makes sense. If I am shooting speed steel with the .22 conversion (stock Glock sights) I am aiming low of center on the steel targets. If using the .40 slide (Glock NS) I am aiming center to hit center. I am no expert to know for sure but my take on the stock Glock sights (in my experience) are set up so that you see your target over the front sight. When I first got the .22 conversion I was aiming point of aim/ point of impact and kept watching the dirt fly over my little steel target. Adjust aim to 6 o'clock and ding, ding, ding. Good luck,
    Mike
     
  9. biggie24420

    biggie24420 Beaverton Oregon Well-Known Member

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    I have a Gen4 G23 and I got a Lonewolf threaded 40-9 barrel for it with a G19 mag and two factory 33 rnd mags. I shot blazer ammo from the shooting range and out of 125 rounds I had one stove pipe. I know I have a different barrel but my extractor and ejector are working fine. I did contact Glock and they said I did qualify for a new factory RSA (recoil spring assembly) so I am running the new RSA and on Lonewolf's site they did say that I might need to use a Glock Gen4 9mm RSA or maybe a Gen 3 RSA with the specific adapter so the Gen 3 RSA would work with the Gen4 slide. It does sound like it's an ammo issue but if you can you should give the 9mm RSA a try as well... they are not that expensive. Also get some hotter rounds and try different brands.
     
  10. 142

    142 Rogue Valley Member

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    Had the chance to shoot 147 grain loads and had ZERO problems out of 100 rounds. I'll try 124's next for the heck of it but 147's solved the problem. Looks like I'll need a lighter spring to shoot 115's or wait until my stock spring breaks in further. Thanks for all the replies/help & input!
     
  11. 142

    142 Rogue Valley Member

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    147gr American Eagle... FYI
     
  12. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Here's a read that may help from Lone Wolf:

    Notice:

    LWD 9mm conversion barrels will allow you to shoot 9mm ammunition from your Glock 40 S&W or 357 Sig handgun. These conversion barrels are easy to use and install the same as any other barrel, simply drop it in, no gunsmithing or other modifications are required. We do recommend you use the correct 9mm magazine with these conversion barrels to guarantee reliable feeding.


    About 1% of our 9mm conversion barrels are affected by the poor performance of low powered 115 grain ammunition causing a Failure To Eject (FTE). A good example of ammunition that is “most likely to fail” is Winchester White Box (WWB). This rare failure is too low a percentage to make an issue, however it is one we are well aware of. The fix to resolve this issue is quite simple:

    1 Clean and lube your slide and barrel.
    2 Shoot 1 mag to 1 box of good quality +P or +P+ ammunition through the barrel.
    3 Try the FTF ammunition again. If it runs... great! If you experience more failures you will have a couple choices to make:
    Fix A Reduce the recoil spring weight to 11 lbs. Cost is about $25 for stainless steel guide rod and reduced power spring. (insert link to GR here)
    Fix B Shoot 124 gr or a better quality 115 gr ammunition exclusively. The FTF 115 gr ammunition you are currently using is no longer a valid option.

    What causes this problem? Several issues come into play.
    1 The 40 slide and (40 conversion) barrel are thicker than standard 9mm slides and barrels. This extra thickness equates to more weight. The combined extra weight taps the energy of the "weak 115 gr ammunition” to its complete demise. It simply lacks in power and fails to reliably eject the spent round.
    2 Every once in awhile a Failure To Feed/Failure To Eject (FTF/FTE) is caused by a fit issue. We resolve fit issues by pumping +P or +P+ ammunition through the gun. This hot ammunition provides extra pressure and the pressure will positively align any and all components. Once they are all aligned there is no longer a fit issue. The FTF/FTE is usually resolved.

    FYI: Several manufactures are currently producing low powered 115 gr 9mm loads. This ammunition is also known to produce failures in all standard model Glock 9mm pistols.
     
  13. 142

    142 Rogue Valley Member

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    Interesting! Thanks iamme -