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Ft Hood Shooting

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by rsmccsman, Nov 6, 2009.

  1. rsmccsman

    rsmccsman Hillsboro Go Blazers!

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    My heart goes out to and truly breaks for the families of the victims of the Ft Hood shooting. There are 13 dead and some 30 wounded. Without being insensitive to the gravity and horror of this tragedy there are some things that are gnawing at me about this incident.

    First the way I saw the media report this incident appeared to me that they were trying to make this a case for gun control. I was sickened to watch Katie Couric without any knowledge of the gunman’s motives go on and on about PTSD and make generalizations about our veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan like they were nothing but a bunch of “ticking time bombs” who could snap any time and shoot up a bunch of innocent people, and “isn’t it terrible what this awful war has done to our troops” etc blah, blah, blah. So in the words of the Obama administration, “let’s not let a good crisis go to waste” thereby making this into an opportunity for both the anti war and gun control messages to go forth. It was equally sickening to see Couric completely ignore the fact that the shooter was identified as a Muslim as having anything to do with this shooting because the media doesn’t want to offend anyone of the Islamic faith.

    Now don’t get me wrong, most Islamic people are peace loving regular folks who are what you might call secular Muslims, they were raised to be Muslims the same way many are raised to be Catholic or Baptist or Jewish. As a Christian who believes in a God that created us to have free will to accept or reject Him, love or hate Him, I cannot embrace anything but freedom of conscience, and tolerance for those who disagree with me and resist and reject any creed that enforces conformity to its tenants. In fact that was one of the cornerstone principles our country was founded upon which makes me proud to be an American, so I am not on a witch hunt here. But it does strike me as odd that in this war on Terror that all the Terrorists are Radical Islamic extremists. Therefore you would think that those embracing Sharia law, like the Taliban does, that forces outward conformity of all under penalty of death, might be on our Military’s radar so they could keep an eye out for people who subscribe to this philosophy as they might actually be the enemy infiltrating into their ranks and pulling something like this. It wouldn’t be the first time. Throughout the history of warfare enemies have used spies and saboteurs to infiltrate and attack the enemy from within. Our free and tolerant society leaves us open to this. But we are so afraid as a nation to “profile” and be called “racist” or “religiously intolerant” that we deliberately overlook this. Clearly this guy was reported to be shouting Ali Akbar (God is Great in Arabic) as he was shooting. He was known to dress in traditional Islamic garb and to argue with others about the wrongness of the war on Terror and US having troops in Islamic Countries. Can you say “Red Flag?” During the Cold war the CIA would not have allowed recruitment of person known to be an openly active self proclaimed card carrying communist, (although in this current administration that might actually get you in the door.) But today you can be a radical Muslim and harbor anti- American sentiments right under the noses of the same military providing your paycheck.

    If a soldier during World War II was actively displaying a swastika arm band on his uniform, that would have raised suspicion of possible treason and his activities would have been reported and investigated. How much do you want to bet that when this shooter is charged it will only be with assault and homicide and not with Treason? We have to sanitize our reporting so as not to offend anyone.

    There have been many instances of soldiers trained in special forces tactics using the training we gave them to train our enemies and use that training against us. Is this not treason? There was a recent news program about a powerful Mexican drug cartel that uses ex Mexican Military Officers trained by the US Military as its enforcers. Why do we train our enemies? This gang has access to all the military hardware they can buy and the carnage is unbelievable but the Media ignores this and blames American guns on the violence. Mexico has absolute gun control and it is a mess because only the Criminals and corrupt military and police have guns leaving the people victims to this carnage. It just seems that if a police officer has to pass a background investigation before he can go to work, that we should at least check to see where the loyalties of those who receive specialized sensitive military training lie, since that affects national security. It would be better than having the airport screeners have the little old ladies take their shoes off to check them for bombs. (I could start a whole other posting on airport security don't get me started.)

    Anyway back to the Ft Hood incident, this was clearly not about our Veteran’s “PTSD problem” and the need to keep them away from guns and get them psychiatric help to protect us from them. I believe the opposite is true. This man a trained psychiatrist (Ironically that would be a medically trained doctor specializing in Mental Health issues such as helping soldier with their PTSD.) The very reason he chose this location to shoot up is he knew that our troops are systematically disarmed as they return to America leaving all these men and women who are well trained in the use of small arms completely helpless and unable to defend themselves just like any school shooting. Being a military man he knew he would have the tactical advantage. If our soldiers had not been disarmed the shooter would not have managed to shoot more than one or two people before being stopped. This could not have happened to our troops in Iraq where they are free to defend themselves. I find it sadly ironic that the US Military had to turn to civilian police to stop the shooter. Probably the whole incident would not have occurred if our troops had not been disarmed as the shooter would not have chosen this as his venue preferring instead a “softer target.” If this had happened just off base the off duty soldiers would have had easier access to their personal firearms to stop this evil man.

    Also today in the news there was a story about 2 middle school age children being arrested for bringing a .22 caliber handgun to school. The police verified that the 2 kids had no ill intentions for the gun but they kept showing the concerned parent over and over go on and on emotionally about how scared she was and this was her worst nightmare that her kids were at school where someone had a weapon. Personally I am more afraid that my kids are at a school where no one has a gun and they could be helplessly, slowly, and methodically picked off. In Israel the school teachers are all well trained and armed. They don’t have school shootings and this incident would not have happened there as they don’t leave their soldiers or civilians unarmed. They understand the terrorists want to kill us. My wife is a teacher in a school that used to have an indoor shooting range in the basement as part of its sports program, now they will expel you for even a cap gun. How did our society come to this? Anyway I am done venting. If anyone has any comments or criticism at least we are still free to do that. God bless America, God bless our Troops and God bless the families affected by this tragedy.
     
  2. Blackfeather7

    Blackfeather7 Oregon Member

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    To immediately accept the official version of this tragedy and the guilt of Hasan is pretty naive. Another report out there says that a firefight erupted between two soldiers who were refusing to deploy and a dozen others who had come to beat them up. Hasan was called to try to talk to them since both of them had been seeing him for counseling. He was killed in the melee. The army can't admit to this kind of discord in the ranks so Hasan is a convenient Muslim patsy. Let's see if Hasan gets out of the hospital alive to tell his story. I bet he doesn't.

    I'm not saying this is the absolute truth, but I'm not immediately buying the official version either. The army has its reasons for spinning it this way and the major media is owned by Israeli firsters who want us to attack Iran. How convenient for them.
     
  3. rsmccsman

    rsmccsman Hillsboro Go Blazers!

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    What is the source for your report? Can you confirm any of this? These are pretty big conspiracy theories you are throwing around here. My take was that they were going out of their way to not make Hasan the "Muslim patsy" as you put it and instead they were downplaying that he was Muslim and spinning it away from that. I also don't see this incident as having anything to do with Israel or attacking Iran. I really don't get that whole blame the Jews for secretly running everything BS that has been going on since before Hitler. I have visited concentration camps in Europe, and guess what the Holocaust actually happened and 6 million Jews and Millions of others were brutally murdered. To have you turn this tragedy into a scapegoating of the Jews is really kind of twisted. Also I was not referring to any "official version," I was referring to a very liberal media's take on this story. When it comes to Islamic extremism I heard someone put it this way. They have the will to kill us and stop us, the just don't have the means. We have the means to kill them and stop them, we just don't have will. Whoever gets the will or the means first wins.
     
  4. Blackfeather7

    Blackfeather7 Oregon Member

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    It is a kneejerk reaction which had been promoted by the Zionist controlled media to immediately scream "Anti-Semitism" when anyone dares to criticize anything the government of Israel does. The major media is no longer liberal, at least where Israel is concerned. Since the sixties all the major media has been consolidated into five corporations all controlled by Zionists. By the way not all Zionists are Jews. Joe Biden says he is a Zionist. There are also some Christian fundamentalists who consider themselves Zionists. Israel has the Mossad which is notorious for false flag operations. Their motto is "By Deception Thou Shall Make War." Google the "U.S. Liberty" for one. For a heck of a ride Google "the dancing Israelis" and follow links from there.

    Zionism is a political ideology. not a religion. It's purpose is a world government controlled by the House of Rothschild which was the prime mover in the establishment of Israel on land that had belonged to the Palestinian people for thousands of years. Why? for control of the oil reserves. The Rothschild family and several other Zionist families control most of the international banks which in turn control both sides of the aisle in our Congress and President Obomba to boot.

    I am not saying that the article I mentioned is necessairly true. I do not however take everything the major media reports as gospel. Neither am I an anti-semite. I am partially Jewish myself and if I lived in Israel I would be part of the peace movement and not trust anything the government or their propaganda machine said. I just don't trust it here either. They stampeaded us into two useless wars and are trying to do it again. Go ahead and call me a "conspiricy theorist" if you like but I would rather be that then a sheep like the ones in Joey's logo picture. Personally I believe that if you discount every possible conspiracy you haven't read much history and don't know how governments work and how they have always worked.
     
  5. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    Oh dear God....
     
  6. New Oregonian

    New Oregonian Lane County Member

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    :paranoid:

    :paranoid::paranoid:

    Your post made me :)

    Bilderberg Group?:paranoid:
     
  7. rsmccsman

    rsmccsman Hillsboro Go Blazers!

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    I can't believe how sidetracked and completely off topic this thread has become. This was supposed to be about a liberal media sanitizing their reports of this tragic shooting and using it to push an anti gun agenda and political correctness. This is a firearm's forum remember. This has nothing to do with theories of Zionist world domination. I don't know how you connect the dots like that and went there. It is like saying 2+2= orange. It doesn't make any sense. My apologies to all for even starting this thread, I had no idea it would go off the deep end.
     
  8. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure you guys saw the aliens too right......Darn Greys.

    Look I'm just as skeptical as the next guy, but this was a tragedy and didn't need to happen.
    I saved an article about suicide rates amoung vets and it's disgusting. We send these people to war and when they get home we cut them loose. And sometimes ask them to go back. That's just insane. I say we pull all our boys and girls home and use them to protect our homeland.

    I understand and believe in why were there, but we have to better help those who live through that **** and are lucky enough to come back. I use lucky loosely.

    However, no you cannot trust media for any reason.
     
  9. raindog

    raindog Portland, OR Active Member

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    LOL!

    The media is very anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian. To listen to MSNBC, CNN, ABC, the New York Times, etc., you'd think the Israelis were bloodthirsty genocidal butchers and the "Palestinians" were peace-loving pastoral gentlebeings who never hurt anyone and just want to plant a Jeffersonian democracy in the Middle East.
     
  10. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Kind of hard to say the major was having any "War" like problems, when he had never been deployed.

    You join the Military, ya know...you just may have to be deployed somewhere.

    So yes, given the news we all know of...it his fault for what happened, and he does have a screw loose.
     
  11. Blackfeather7

    Blackfeather7 Oregon Member

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    All of the major gun grabbers in congress starting with Schumer and Feinstein are Zionists. Connect those dots.
    Also, the Governor of Texas says there were three shooters. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-IL61yoWnk4&feature=related
     
  12. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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    That video was from when they thought there had been 3 shooters - they already released the other two suspects by the end of the day.

    But then again that was from the media, so who knows..

    and now they're saying Hasan may have killed all those people because of "compassion fatigue"
    Give me a break.

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,572625,00.html
     
  13. RobertJ.

    RobertJ. Seaside, OR Member

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    Schumer and Feinstein might be self- loathing Jews, but I would hardly call them Zionists. You say you're not an anti-Semite, but I'm seeing leanings in that direction.
     
  14. ORBrit

    ORBrit Eugene Member

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  15. Blackfeather7

    Blackfeather7 Oregon Member

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    Before the spin was in.
     
  16. Blackfeather7

    Blackfeather7 Oregon Member

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    You've got the terminology wrong "Self-loathing Jews" is the term Zionists use against jews such as Prof. Norman Finkelstein who criticize anything Israel does. Schumer and Feinstein are just the opposite, they take large donations from AIPAC and regularly pledge their unwavering support to Israel. They are both 100% in their voting records according to AIPAC and 100% anti-gun. AIPAC gives millions in campaign donations to both sides of the aisle and gets billions of taxpayers dollars for Israel in return every year.

    You are also wrong about me and are adopting the standard Zionist tactic of labeling anyone who dares to say anything against the policies of Israel. "Self-loathing Jews" is for Jews; "Anti-semite" is for gentiles.
     
  17. Reco

    Reco Portland Oregon Active Member

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    US Army Major- Doctor of Psychcology- Dressed in religeous garb- Shouting God is great- as he guns down a building packed with unarmed soldiers and civilians.

    Oh ya hes a Muslim too.

    = TERRORIST

    nuff said.

    Reco
     
  18. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    To define terrorism:
    terrorism, act of terrorism, terrorist act (the calculated use of violence (or the threat of violence) against civilians in order to attain goals that are political or religious or ideological in nature; this is done through intimidation or coercion or instilling fear)

    I would say Hasan was a terrorist.
    And one heck of a piece of human trash.
    To define trash:
    trash, scrap (worthless material that is to be disposed of)
     
  19. Doubletap

    Doubletap Newberg Well-Known Member

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    As anyone who knows me can tell you..I'm as far from politically correct as you can get.. My stand is..if the truth "offends" you..then that's your problem..

    I'm weary of all the apologists..and appeasers.. If we don't look at reality..and take the gloves off soon..we won't have a country left..

    I didn't write this..but I definitely see the truth of it:



    Can a Muslim be a good American?


    This question is a serious one..and so is my answer…

    No.. Muslim-American is an oxymoron..

    Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah, The moon God of Arabia.

    Religiously - no. . . . Because no other religion is accepted by His Allah except Islam (Quran, 2:256) (Koran).

    Scripturally - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to the five Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

    Geographically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Mecca , to which he turns in prayer five times a day.

    Socially - no. . . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him to make friends with Christians or Jews… In fact..he is instructed..to seek them out..and kill them…

    Politically - no. . . . Because he must submit to the mullahs (spiritual leaders ), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of America, the great Satan.

    Domestically - no. . . . Because he is instructed to marry four women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34).

    Intellectually - no. . . . Because he cannot accept the American Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles, and he believes the Bible to be corrupt.

    Philosophically - no. . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran do not allow freedom of religion and expression. Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.


    Call it what you wish.. It's still the truth..

    The more who understand this, the better it will be for our country and our future. The religious war is bigger than we know or understand..


    Therefore after much study and deliberation, the only conclusion a rational person could arrive at..is that we should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS ..

    They obviously cannot be both Muslims and good Americans..as explained above.. and if you fail to understand this..I'm afraid you've left your mind open too long..and your brain fell out..
     
  20. 4Freedom

    4Freedom Boise, Idaho Well-Known Member

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    SUre blame Jews for all the murders your nazi and islamist bloodthirsty friends are doing, sure is nice to have a scapegoat. THats what Hitler liked. OH no not more ROthschild crap.. Shouldn't you save these rants for Stormfront website? As far as I know, all of the liberal media hates Israel and your liberal friends at the UN are seeking to have all the Israeli generals and commanders arrestsed for defending their country against rocket attacks that your barbaric Palestinian friends, like the one who murdered those soldiers at Fort Hood have done to the Israeli people.

    I am sick of all the Pogrom and Jew hatred, you nazi/islamists have against us.. Every terrorist act in this country has been performed by muslims and white supremacists and you got the nerve to keep blaming these ZIonists you know absolutely nothing about. And for your info, every single land, except for Saudi Arabia that muslims live was acquired through massacring, pillaging, raping and stealing.

    Your EUropean and Muslim friends mass murdered Jews and hung them in the streets and chased them out of your countries and now your screaming about the fact that they need a place to live where they can feel safe and accepted. YOu are one-sided and bigoted, just like Major Hasan the Palestinian who decided to murder 13 of our brave soldiers.

    Do people like you cry for the JEws who were dangling from ropes in downtown Baghdad, when the Iraqis united with the nazis and did a massive ethnic cleansing. What about the mass murders and synagogue burnings in Tunisia?

    I am sick of your arab-muslim-white fascist controlled libreal media.. Maybe you should apply for a job at Al Jaezera?

    I bet you the Palestinian people are proud what one of their own, Major Hasan did today, killing the American/ZIonist enemy... Death to Israel, Death to America.. Yeah, people never criticize Israel, does anyone criticize what Palestinains do, like the Palestinian named Major Nidal Malik Hasan? Is Major Nidal Malik Hasan an AMerican or a Palestinain, I wonder which coiuntry he truly devoted his loyalty to. I didn't see him going to a mosque saying to death to Muslims and shooting all of them.

    I know I already am reading on Stormfront that the Nidal Malik Hasan is a Jew and MOssad agent.. YOu people really don't bother to ever look at the real picture of the situation ,but rather need to find some conspiracy theory to make you people stand out like you having some special knowledge; even though you people know hardly anything in the global realm. It helps to leave your barn once in a while and see the real situation of the world and read some history books taht were not written by nazi or islamist propagandists. According to most Muslms, the holocaust never happened and it was all a lie. And who are Palestinains anyway? Up until 1948 they had no leaders, no currency , no government, no established cities. They were groups of nomads who came and settled in the land in villages. All the mosques and development in Israel before the JEws were there came from the Romans and Turks, who themselves, mass murdered large numbers of arabs. THese people never lived or owned any of hte land. THe Zionists purchased most of the land from wealthy arab sheiks who were laughing at the JEws for wanting such a wasteland that they turned into a paradise. IT wasn't until the land become profitable and the British established a JEwish homeland, giving 20% of Israel to the Jews, that the arabs shouted to exterminate all JEws from the MIddle East.

    The Arabs got 80% of Israel, which is now called Jordan (a Hebrew word). How come there is so much crying about how little lands the arabs have? What about Black Thursday, when the Palestinains wanted to annex part of Jordan from the Hashemites, the Hashemite kings send soldiers to murder them. The Jordanians killed over 20,000 Palestinains in just one week. You ever heard about Black Thursday? I guess that is probably not in your history books, since doctor David Duke, never bothered writing any part of history that doesn't involve condemning Israel. The JOrdanians mass murdered tens of thousands of Palestinains and there was not one hippie, liberal, UN war crime tribunal, no white supremacist, not one person in the western world spoke a word to condemn this act! I wonder who is being biased?

    There is 1 milllion arabs in Israel who can vote, be elected, get supported with government programs, go to school. How many Jews live in Muslim countries? I can also count them on my fingers. Most JEws cannot even enter Islamic countries without risking being killed.. Yet, muslims walk around freely in USA and Israel going to mosque and never face any threat.
    More arabic-muslim-communsit-liberal media lies!! We are Zionists, you are Islamists!! You are the one who threatens freedom.. The Israelis have gone out of their to promote human rights that Islamic countries seek to destroy through their vile sharia law!

    THe extermination didn't start in Israel, they mass murdered Jews in all the lands they lived: Yemen, Saudi Arabia, TUnisia, Algeria, Morocco, LIbya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan.. They were forced to flee after living in these lands for 100s, even 1000s of years.

    DOes anyone criticize what arabs do? ANyone care thaat the Muslims in Egypt are murdering the CHristians there? What about IRaqi Christans who are losing priests and pastors everyday, their women are rape, churches burned?



    By the way, this racist name Blackfeather says that Zionists are against guns.. He labels self-hating Jews liek Feinstein as a ZIonist??? HAAA.. Most religious and Zioniist Jews cannot stand the liberal Jews in our government. I am am member of Jews for the Preservation of Firearm Ownership, one of the greatest advocates for 2A rights in the country... Majority of the right-wing JEws in New York are very supportive of gun ownership. Most of these liberal Jews who are against gun ownership are also very pro-Palestine. DId you forget a liberal gun-grabbing Jew named Richard GOldstone wrote a report in which he seeked to have all the generals and commanders in Israel put in prison? Just because you have Jewish genes, doesn't mean you are a real Jew or that all Jews are like this. Jewish people are constantly under threat from attacks by White SUpremacists and Muslims and they need and respect their right to bear arms

    I know some IDF soldiers who have come to USA to help train JEwish citizens and other people in firearms.. IF Jews are so anti-gun, how come we have Kahanist and JDL trianing camps, teaching Jewish citizens how to use firearms?

    Go to JDL (www.jdl.org) or JTF (www.jtf.org) website and you will see they are Zionist and very Pro-2A and Pro-USA.