Ft Hood Killer linked to September 11 terrorists

[PlayboyPenguin]

It's really unfair to ignore the religious dogma that made this guy justify his actions and when you consider that you're forced to consider it a hate crime.

Main Entry: hate crime
Function: noun
Date: 1984

Any of various crimes when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender, or sexual orientation)

None of the stories I have seen so far have said anything about the religious aspects of the case. In fact most have said he described himself as "non-religious" and his family has said pretty much the same thing. The thing they all say is that he was distraught about being deployed. Using religion to justify his actions has nothing to do with the religion. It is just a coward trying to make himself feel better. Just like people who shoot abortion doctors in the name of Jesus.

 

[el gringo loco]

It's really unfair to ignore the religious dogma that made this guy justify his actions and when you consider that you're forced to consider it a hate crime.

Main Entry: hate crime
Function: noun
Date: 1984

Any of various crimes when motivated by hostility to the victim as a member of a group (as one based on color, creed, gender, or sexual orientation)

I would agree with PlayboyPenguin that this does not look like a hate crime. Hate crimes have to do with the suspect committing a crime based on the victim's membership to a protected class. Yes, all of the victims were on a military base, but that unites them no more than all of the students/teachers at Columbine.

Whether it is a religious dogma, or racist dogma, or just plain being nuts, the attacker's creed (when determining if a crime is a hate crime or not) only matters inasmuch as it can be applied to the victims as a whole.

Just as I would argue that this man is not a terrorist, I would argue that this was not a hate crime. This guy did this for selfish reasons. Everything was personal. Terrorists strike innocents or the uninvolved to send a message. Hate crimes are usually committed against complete strangers to send a message. Workplace/school shooters strike people they know or people who are members of the group/organization/company that the shooter views as having been slighted by or mistreated by. Workplace shootings are in response to personal attacks (real or imagined).

 

[Thule]

Sure, religion had nothing to do with it

Then, witnesses say, he bowed his head for several seconds, as if praying, stood up and drew a high-powered pistol. “Allahu akbar,” he said — “God is great.” And he opened fire. Within minutes he had killed 13 people.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/us/09reconstruct.html

Even found it on a source that even libtards can approve of. There are other references such as the conversations with fellow Muslims about how he was coping with being deployed into a war against Islam. I'm sure you can find it if you look.

As far as hate crimes go, this is a textbook definition of a hate crime... No need to apologize for him.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Sure, religion had nothing to do with it



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/09/us/09reconstruct.html

Even found it on a source that even libtards can approve of. There are other references such as the conversations with fellow Muslims about how he was coping with being deployed into a war against Islam. I'm sure you can find it if you look.

As far as hate crimes go, this is a textbook definition of a hate crime... No need to apologize for him.

I have not heard a single witness on TV or an quoted witness in print add those theatrical details yet. Has anyone else? In fact ever personal account I have seen so far pretty much consisted of "I did not even see him until he started firing."

 

[gunnoob75]

Purely speculation.

I bet if I go into portland and get into a bar fight with a homosexual male, it would be a hate crime.

But a Muslim killing Americans, it's just coincidence.

 

[ZeroRing]

The telegraph is a rag that does very little besides bash Muslims and repeat baseless stories and treat them as "news." It is the Fox News of europe.

Regardless of ones opinion of the "source", you have to admit that the following quotes from the article ARE worth further investigation.

Hasan, the sole suspect in the massacre of 13 fellow US soldiers in Texas, attended the controversial Dar al-Hijrah mosque in Great Falls, Virginia, in 2001 at the same time as two of the September 11 terrorists, The Sunday Telegraph has learnt. His mother's funeral was held there in May that year.

The preacher at the time was Anwar al-Awlaki, an American-born Yemeni scholar who was banned from addressing a meeting in London by video link in August because he is accused of supporting attacks on British troops and backing terrorist organisations.

Hasan's eyes "lit up" when he mentioned his deep respect for al-Awlaki's teachings, according to a fellow Muslim officer at the Fort Hood base in Texas, the scene of Thursday's horrific shooting spree.

As investigators look at Hasan's motives and mindset, his attendance at the mosque could be an important piece of the jigsaw. Al-Awlaki moved to Dar al-Hijrah as imam in January, 2001, from the west coast, and three months later the September 11 hijackers Nawaf al-Hamzi and Hani Hanjour began attending his services. A third hijacker attended his services in California.

Hasan was praying at Dar al-Hijrah at about the same time, and the FBI will now want to investigate whether he met the two terrorists.

Charles Allen, a former under-secretary for intelligence at the Department of Homeland Security, has described al-Awlaki, who now lives in Yemen, as an "al-Qaeda supporter, and former spiritual leader to three of the September 11 hijackers... who targets US Muslims with radical online lectures encouraging terrorist attacks from his new home in Yemen".

What does seem clear is that the army missed an increasing number of red flags that Hasan was a troubled and brooding individual within its ranks.

"I was shocked but not surprised by news of Thursday's attack," said Dr Val Finnell, a fellow student on a public health course in 2007-08 who heard Hasan equate the war on terrorism to a war on Islam. Another student had warned military officials that Hasan was a "ticking time bomb" after he reportedly gave a presentation defending suicide bombers.

Fellow Muslims in the US armed forces have also been quick to denounce Hasan's actions and insist that they were the product of a lone individual rather than of Islamic teachings. Osman Danquah, the co-founder of the Islamic Community of Greater Killeen, said Hasan never expressed anger toward the army or indicated any plans for violence.

But he said that, at their second meeting, Hasan seemed almost incoherent.

"I told him, 'There's something wrong with you'. I didn't get the feeling he was talking for himself, but something just didn't seem right."

He was sufficiently troubled that he recommended the centre reject Hasan's request to become a lay Muslim leader at Fort Hood.

Hasan had, in fact, already come to the attention of the authorities before Thursday's massacre. He was suspected of being the author of internet postings that compared suicide bombers with soldiers who throw themselves on grenades to save others and had also reportedly been warned about proselytising to patients.

At Fort Hood, he told a colleague, Col Terry Lee, that he believed Muslims should rise up against American "aggressors". He made no attempt to hide his desire to end his military service early or his mortification at the prospect of deployment to Afghanistan. "He had people telling him on a daily basis the horrors they saw over there," said his cousin, Nader Hasan.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

Purely speculation.

I bet if I go into portland and get into a bar fight with a homosexual male, it would be a hate crime.

But a Muslim killing Americans, it's just coincidence.

No it wouldn't...unless you went into a gay bar TO beat up a homosexual. It definitely would not be "gay bashing" if you walked into a mall and shot 10 people and one or two of them happened to be gay. See the difference?

 

[Thule]

I have not heard a single witness on TV or an quoted witness in print add those theatrical details yet. Has anyone else? In fact ever personal account I have seen so far pretty much consisted of "I did not even see him until he started firing."

I've seen it documented on lots of sites. I even linked one for you... you should maybe broaden your horizon and try reading something other than what you're reading.

 

[gunnoob75]

No it wouldn't...unless you went into a gay bar TO beat up a homosexual. It definitely would not be "gay bashing" if you walked into a mall and shot 10 people and one or two of them happened to be gay. See the difference?

But a Muslim walking into a deployment screening to kill American Soldiers is... What?

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

I've seen it documented on lots of sites. I even linked one for you... you should maybe broaden your horizon and try reading something other than what you're reading.

Where? That article did not "document" that claim at all. There is no quoted witness saying that. It is just creative writing.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

But a Muslim walking into a deployment screening to kill American Soldiers is...?

Only if he did it because he is a Muslim. Which it does not appear he did...and you forget that an AMERICAN walked into that building and shot other AMERICANS. Was the Oklahoma City Bombing a hate crime? Was it a hate crime against Americans by a christian?

 

[Thule]

Where? That article did not "document" that claim at all. There is no quoted witness saying that. It is just creative writing.

You can't really be this obtuse... Do your own research

 

[cameronhu]

It always amazes me how libs, when whipped on the facts, just resort to attacking the messenger. Even then they often get those facts wrong.

You know, I can't remember the last time I heard a "lib" bash the <darth vader voice>Main Stream Media</dvv>:winkkiss:

Honestly, this whole situation sucks. Sucks for Christians, sucks for Muslims and it sucks for us in the Other category.

 

[gunnoob75]

Only if he did it because he is a Muslim. Which it does not appear he did...and you forget that an AMERICAN walked into that building and shot other AMERICANS. Was the Oklahoma City Bombing a hate crime? Was it a hate crime against Americans by a christian?

What is your definition of American?

There are training compounds in the united states, as close as northern Washington, where they train to kill Americans. But they are here, as Americans.

Is it really hard to believe that either;

1) A muslim joined the army to kill people someday. (Not my choice)

Or

B) This man was Muslim, and maybe he was American. But getting forced to deploy and kill his Fellow Muslim pushed him over the edge, and he embraced all that American-killing terrorism his religion loves to hate?

 

[Steve Solomon]

YOU forget that a Muslim is a Muslim FIRST and an American a distant second. It does not matter what you or I think/believe in this war, we must --know-- what the enemy believes to have the continuous upper hand in this forever war.

A war like this is only "won" if we stay in the battle...numbers and discussion no longer matter.

 

[Trlsmn]

Only if he did it because he is a Muslim. Which it does not appear he did...and you forget that an AMERICAN walked into that building and shot other AMERICANS. Was the Oklahoma City Bombing a hate crime? Was it a hate crime against Americans by a christian?

To that I would counter that Timothy McVeigh did not bomb the Oklahoma building because they were non-Christians so no creed hate crime.

Lets speculate for arguments sake. Here is the question and example. If this guy was Muslim and did do this purposely against the "Infidels" would you then consider this a hate crime?



True this is very early in the information cycle to say any speculation correct or incorrect, it will be some time before know these things

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

YOU forget that a Muslim is a Muslim FIRST and an American a distant second. It does not matter what you or I think/believe in this war, we must --know-- what the enemy believes to have the continuous upper hand in this forever war.

A war like this is only "won" if we stay in the battle...numbers and discussion no longer matter.

Who the heck made that rule? Are christians "christians first and Americans second?" Should all christians have their patriotism questioned because they are religious? And if a christian commits a crime he uses his religions to justify is that a war against America by christianity?

 

[cameronhu]

What is your definition of American?

There are training compounds in the united states, as close as northern Washington, where they train to kill Americans. But they are here, as Americans.

Is it really hard to believe that either;

1) A muslim joined the army to kill people someday. (Not my choice)

Or

B) This man was Muslim, and maybe he was American. But getting forced to deploy and kill his Fellow Muslim pushed him over the edge, and he embraced all that American-killing terrorism his religion loves to hate?

There are training compounds close by where some Americans train to kill black, gay, Catholic and Jewish Americans.

The idea that somehow "American" and "Muslim" or even "Jihadist" are mutually exclusive or contradictory terms is not one I would subscribe to.

 

[PlayboyPenguin]

To that I would counter that Timothy McVeigh did not bomb the Oklahoma building because they were non-Christians so no creed hate crime.

Let speculate for arguments sake. Here is the question and example. If this guy was Muslim and did do this purposely against the "Infidels" would you then consider this a hate crime?



True this is very early in the information cycle to say any speculation correct or incorrect, it will be some time before know these things

And what evidence do you have that this man killed people because they were not Muslims? I do not see any accounts of him asking anyone their religion before indiscriminately shooting. Is it because his middle eastern heritage that you jump to this conclusion about an American born and educated soldier?

 

[cameronhu]

YOU forget that a Muslim is a Muslim FIRST and an American a distant second. It does not matter what you or I think/believe in this war, we must --know-- what the enemy believes to have the continuous upper hand in this forever war.

A war like this is only "won" if we stay in the battle...numbers and discussion no longer matter.

Is it your opinion that a Christian is an American first, before he is a Christian? Hmm.. Not sure everyone shares you hierarchy of values.