Frustrating Ongoing Experience with Staccato

[kmk1012]

Strangely enough, I had the same thoughts but Keltec.

If I could find a KelTec in 32acp for a decent price I'd grab it. I don't need another caliber to load for but why the he!! not?

 

[po18guy]

My first guess, would be the same.

As an FFL with a retail storefront, on a new gun from any vendor, a cursory inspection is all we do. We verify the serial number, check the fit and finish and that the slide cycles, magazine release works, etc. We've seen some interesting things from suppliers time to time, generally with finish issues (barrels with coating materials in the barrel, big scratches, dirty actions, metal shavings). We don't full function test the firearms.

The larger question would be, if the Staccato was in fact brand/factory new from the dealer. As a dealer there would be zero reason to modify the firearm prior to sale, that's a huge liability with zero upside for the dealer or consumer. But, if it was a trade, even a like new trade, its more difficult to ascertain if the previous owner in fact made a modification. Proving the chain of custody is up to the selling dealer to validate, can you trust their new/unfired statement hold water? Hard to say.

Of special concern would be if the shop has an affiliated gunsmith or known or suspected tinkerer. These are scarce enough that a few might not be able to resist the urge to dig in.

 

[RVTECH]

Well, shoot, Ah am jest a 'Po boy and ain't got nuthin' but a $399 Colt 1991 A1 that shot fantastic from day one!

Other than ONE FTE with the who knows who reloads I bought a box of when I first bought the gun, after that it has functioned 100% with my reloads - including those with SWC bullets.

It is also capable of 25 yard, 1.5" groups benchrested with good loads.

I am NOT impugning the potential quality of $2000 plus guns - however I have seen some fantastic quality with common, well known names, including a S & W 1911 a buddy of mine bought not too many years ago - and for considerably less than 2 grand.

It was literally incredible. Very tight, excellent fit and finish and we took it out the next day and it shot excellently.

We were hitting 50 yard, 3" steel with it easily with my reloads.

My next 1911 is going to be a RIA 'Rock' model in 9mm when I find one!

 

[TTSX]

Of special concern would be if the shop has an affiliated gunsmith or known or suspected tinkerer. These are scarce enough that a few might not be able to resist the urge to dig in.

There is a local shop where an employee or two are known to aggressively handle the in stock guns, constantly dropping actions on empty chambers and dry firing. Would make me nervous sending them a high dollar gun to fondle for who knows how long before I could pick it up.

 

[Gunbuggy]

First off i feel for you so dont think my response has any ill will.

Couple options here.

1- fight tooth and nail. You purchased a 2k dollar firearm and the results are absolutely unacceptable. If staccato says they didn't modify, and you truthfully didnt modify, then work with your dealer. Something must have happened between ffl acceptance and ffl delivery.

2- accept the inspection results that the manufacturer is standing by and pay the 200 dollars for a functioning gun. Once you do this, they have to stand by their work and if same issues arise all further work will be covered. You purchased a 2k dollar firearm. 200 bucks shouldn't bother you. Still, not acceptable but it's not like they gave you a bill that was 50% of the gun you purchased.

In my opinion the staccato is a niche gun and should never be in the category of a duty gun or a concealed gun. It's a novelty piece that is a flex at the range. As a stacattp owner myself I can truthfully say that.

What is more important to you? Having a 2011 that functions as it should and shelling out 200 bucks of your own money to get it there? Or... not spending another dime, going after your dealer to make things right and not shooting the gun until either staccato or dealer steps up?

Again... you shouldn't be experiencing this after buying a 2k+ gun. I'm with you. But if staccato says "here's the fix, give me 200 bucks and we guarantee it to work".... is it worth fighting over? An answer only you can decide as the owner.

 

[Gunbuggy]

From my standpoint, as a Staccato dealer, a Kimber Dealer, Wilson Combat, Nighthawk, and a pile of other 1911/2011 brands, I'd offer the following:

We run into these issues about once or twice a year, a big duck measuring contest with a factory over warranty on a firearm (or ammo, component etc).

Smith & Wesson on an M&P40 - they dismissed the customer completely, said it was an ammo problem as refused to warranty the firearm. The gun firearm out of battery and destroyed the frame and damaged the slide. We didn't even sell the gun to this customer, but he was an occasional customer so we offered to help when we heard how he was being treated. The gun went back to S&W, and was returned with the same dismissive comments. That's when we ramped up the investigation. I pulled 12 M&P series pistols from our inventory and tried to set up the failure (without live ammo). 9 of 12 pistols I could set up in an out of battery conditions and get the trigger to drop the firing pin. One, at about 3/16" of an inch out of battery. We provided photos and video of our sampling to our S&W supplier, the S&W rep, and supervisors at S&W service department. Their next response was that the gun was designed to be up to1/4" out of battery and safely fire...I lost it when I heard that. I called our rep, he totally agreed, that was an embarrassing reply. This time, S&W offer the client a reduced cost replacement, $300 or so. I stepped it back up, in parallel with the rep. I stopped all S&W orders shipping to us, notified 4 suppliers that we worked with to return all of our S&W inventory (about 75 guns). Put it simply to S&W, if they feel its safe to fire 1/4" out of battery, I can't sell their product, it's not safe and it's not worth the risk. 2 weeks later, S&W shipped me a replacement gun for the client, at no charge. They also sent me a letter that they were revising their statement, that the guns were safe to fire at 1/16" out of battery, in lieu of 1/4". Client was stunned when we called him with a new gun. Mind you, we didn't sell the $450 in the first place. It was the right thing to do.

I'm in the middle of the same thing with a major manufacturer and their new brass, loaded in 2022. I loaded 100,000 rounds of ammo before we started seeing hairline fracture in the case wall. We recalled all of the ammo that had sold, pulled the ammo off our shelves and pulled the brass from production, another 100,000 pieces. They've been stonewalling me with their lawyers, and they have LOTS of lawyers. We sent them samples of unloaded brass that we found hairline cracks on, and some that had a physical brake before it loaded. We've been going back and forth, I just want my costs recovered. Its been a battle, and has only progressed now by involving my attorney, who is a well connected 2A attorney. I've moved past just recovering my costs now, as It 2 years old. I'll win, but like dealing with insurance carriers, deny, delay, defend. I'll have a chat with them at a 2A policy conference next month, as we sit on the same board. If that doesn't move the ball, then we just file the suit.

Your dealer should take the same position with Staccato, if they attest nothing was modified in the firearm, and you do the same...then they should put the pressure on Staccato. Staccato has had their own issues with personnel, but I love their product and never had any warranty issues like this. I own 4 Staccatos myself and simply, love them. I own Kimbers, Nighthawks, Wilsons, Atlas, Standard Mfg, Dan Wessons, Jacob Grey, and many more. I love the platform. I'd go talk to the dealer, in person and very professionally. Ask for their help, if you bought the firearm from them, they should go to bat for you...but use sugar, not salt.
As a small dealer, a private citizen...we hold little power versus the big money folks. But when were right, they will eventually settle rather than take the black eye. Stay strong, professional and polite. You will win.

If your FFL won't take a firm stand, come see me. I'll fight for you.

Sounds like OP should have ordered his gun through sporting systems lol.

An ffl thats willing to go through all that for a gun they didn't sell is pretty bad bubblegum. Heck, even if he ordered it online and used them for the transfer, they're still LOSING money on doing that deal. WA state is killing ffls and ffls have long been losing money on ppt's and online orders to stores for transfers.

 

[NewGunGuy]

My first guess, would be the same.

As an FFL with a retail storefront, on a new gun from any vendor, a cursory inspection is all we do. We verify the serial number, check the fit and finish and that the slide cycles, magazine release works, etc. We've seen some interesting things from suppliers time to time, generally with finish issues (barrels with coating materials in the barrel, big scratches, dirty actions, metal shavings). We don't full function test the firearms.

The larger question would be, if the Staccato was in fact brand/factory new from the dealer. As a dealer there would be zero reason to modify the firearm prior to sale, that's a huge liability with zero upside for the dealer or consumer. But, if it was a trade, even a like new trade, its more difficult to ascertain if the previous owner in fact made a modification. Proving the chain of custody is up to the selling dealer to validate, can you trust their new/unfired statement hold water? Hard to say.

The gun was purchased directly from Staccato sent to an FFL cause I live in a state that doesn't love the 2A

 

[NewGunGuy]

First off i feel for you so dont think my response has any ill will.

Couple options here.

1- fight tooth and nail. You purchased a 2k dollar firearm and the results are absolutely unacceptable. If staccato says they didn't modify, and you truthfully didnt modify, then work with your dealer. Something must have happened between ffl acceptance and ffl delivery.

2- accept the inspection results that the manufacturer is standing by and pay the 200 dollars for a functioning gun. Once you do this, they have to stand by their work and if same issues arise all further work will be covered. You purchased a 2k dollar firearm. 200 bucks shouldn't bother you. Still, not acceptable but it's not like they gave you a bill that was 50% of the gun you purchased.

In my opinion the staccato is a niche gun and should never be in the category of a duty gun or a concealed gun. It's a novelty piece that is a flex at the range. As a stacattp owner myself I can truthfully say that.

What is more important to you? Having a 2011 that functions as it should and shelling out 200 bucks of your own money to get it there? Or... not spending another dime, going after your dealer to make things right and not shooting the gun until either staccato or dealer steps up?

Again... you shouldn't be experiencing this after buying a 2k+ gun. I'm with you. But if staccato says "here's the fix, give me 200 bucks and we guarantee it to work".... is it worth fighting over? An answer only you can decide as the owner.

I purchased the gun directly from staccato, shipped to an FFL for pick up. So in theory they already said : "we guarantee it to work" Now is it worth fighting over? Probably not 200$ isn't the issue its now the mistrust in Staccato. Ill probably end up selling the firearm and putting that money elsewhere even if I take a lose in "profit"

 

[Koda]

When I went thru my ordeal I had to keep initiating contact with the mfg, keep letting them know it wasn't me, remind them politely it was their problem. Deflect all the accusations I was limp wristing, remind them of my experience level, remind them I was only using their magazines that came with the gun, only using factory name brand ammunition, I was only using the lube they recommended in their manual... remind them over and over again, until I got a pre paid warranty return label.
Then months later when I got the "repaired" gun back, and it still jammed. I had to repeat that whole process over again. I had to be polite but firmly remind them that this wasn't the quality I paid for and expected. I had to be nice the whole frustrating time and I never should have had to. I had to remind them that yes, their machining was wrong even when I'm not a machinist... I had proof their processes were not up to par, my rear sight fell off. That's not a $2000 machinist product and they couldn't counter that. I kept, politely, reminding them.
In the end I had to tell them it was the last time, if my gun came back and it jammed one time I was selling it and would never buy from them again and they would lose a customer for life. I asked them if thats how they want to be known. I put them on the spot. I reminded them one more time what I paid for and expected the service as part of that price. 2 years into it, it came back and ran fine.

I should have never had to go thru that experience, but in the end I didn't have to pay for the repair. Though it took 2 years overall it ended all the excitement I had for my first "higher" end (to me) 1911 from one of these boutique well respected manufacturers. As a result, I don't really shoot the gun much now. Its just lost its appeal. Its hard for me to have brand loyalty after being treated like that, not for a $1500 gun. My 30yr old $500 Colt 1911 that rattles and never jams and still hits the bullseye.

Ive always wanted a Stacatto, but not if this is how they will treat their customers. Keep on them and insist they take care of you.

 

[NewGunGuy]

If purchased online and transferred through the FFL I would expect it to be unmodified. If sold by the FFL all bets are off. Sounds like someone owned it before and was playing with the trigger.

If I did not know how to do 1911 triggers, I would pay the factory to fix it. $200 is not unreasonable to get it fixed.

This may be a lesson to ensure the source of a firearm before buying from FFL's. I had a similar lesson when I was shorted an expensive mag on a new firearm by an FFL.

It was purchased directly from staccato FFL was used solely due to being in WA and it being a requirement.

 

[NewGunGuy]

When I went thru my ordeal I had to keep initiating contact with the mfg, keep letting them know it wasn't me, remind them politely it was their problem. Deflect all the accusations I was limp wristing, remind them of my experience level, remind them I was only using their magazines that came with the gun, only using factory name brand ammunition, I was only using the lube they recommended in their manual... remind them over and over again, until I got a pre paid warranty return label.
Then months later when I got the "repaired" gun back, and it still jammed. I had to repeat that whole process over again. I had to be polite but firmly remind them that this wasn't the quality I paid for and expected. I had to be nice the whole frustrating time and I never should have had to. I had to remind them that yes, their machining was wrong even when I'm not a machinist... I had proof their processes were not up to par, my rear sight fell off. That's not a $2000 machinist product and they couldn't counter that. I kept, politely, reminding them.
In the end I had to tell them it was the last time, if my gun came back and it jammed one time I was selling it and would never buy from them again and they would lose a customer for life. I asked them if thats how they want to be known. I put them on the spot. I reminded them one more time what I paid for and expected the service as part of that price. 2 years into it, it came back and ran fine.

I should have never had to go thru that experience, but in the end I didn't have to pay for the repair. Though it took 2 years overall it ended all the excitement I had for my first "higher" end (to me) 1911 from one of these boutique well respected manufacturers. As a result, I don't really shoot the gun much now. Its just lost its appeal. Its hard for me to have brand loyalty after being treated like that, not for a $1500 gun. My 30yr old $500 Colt 1911 that rattles and never jams and still hits the bullseye.

Ive always wanted a Stacatto, but not if this is how they will treat their customers. Keep on them and insist they take care of you.

Thanks for sharing your experience. hopefully, I can have a positive result.

 

[Catfishmoon]

If I were in your shoes and I had done no alterations on the gun, I would be very upset with Staccato and I would now look into what my remedies were. I would stress over and over that I had done no work or modification to the gun, perhaps eventually filing a small court claim if applicable. You can argue that you were sold a defective product and the manufacturer refused to honor the warranty. Even if it wastes more time then seems financially like a good option, a person may want to stand on a matter of principal on this type of situation.

I would post your story honestly and and answer any follow-up questions on as many gun forums as possible, especially those that cater to higher-end guns like Staccato. Basically, public shaming of the company, it's one of the benefits of internet social media...
And share the links with the marketing department at Staccato.

More then almost any other industry that I am aware of, a manufacturer's reputation is very important when other members of the firearm community decide what to purchase new.

On the flipside of the coin, I have had customer service from both CZ-USA and Ruger that was exemplary and beyond what a customer should hope for.

Heck, I would send multiple people at Staccato a link to this very thread to demonstrate the effect their actions are having.

 

[po18guy]

If you have not, you could contact Stacatto with the name/phone of the FFL and have them make a friendly call and have a convo about your piece. If they suspect the dealer, they might be friendlier on the fix.

 

[Sxsnuf]

You have to wonder, was the replacement slide a take-off from another warranty job. I sent one of my M1A's back to SAI for a replacement bbl. Which they provided at a very reasonable cost. When it came back, I had reason to think it was a part from another warranty job. I'm sure this happens. Cuts down the scrappage rate.

Kinda like putting used tires on your car and charging you for new ones??

 

[Gunbuggy]

I purchased the gun directly from staccato, shipped to an FFL for pick up. So in theory they already said : "we guarantee it to work" Now is it worth fighting over? Probably not 200$ isn't the issue its now the mistrust in Staccato. Ill probably end up selling the firearm and putting that money elsewhere even if I take a lose in "profit"

I feel you on that, id also lose trust for sure.

Now just to touch on the selling idea. In today's economy, private gun sales aren't really moving much on forums unless it's a crazy deal. I can't get anything to move unless I steeply discount (sometimes as low as 60%) from new price, even if the gun is new in box.

Now maybe you got a total lemon and paying the 200 bucks won't fix it, but I'd like to think they'd get it right this time and you'd have a really good gun after.

You'll make whatever decision is best for you, just wanted to give my opinion. Either way, best of luck to ya!

 

[MDDM]

Good luck with that. I had 5 staccatos and after dealing with their "customer service" I sold all of them and would never recommend anybody purchase their products.

 

[Mike_M57]

Sounds like you good one, good for you. Not all have had the same experience. Plus I was living in Clackamas when Kimber terminated all there employees with "cause" so that no-one got unemployment benefits and then moved to New York so they didn't have to fight the claims in Oregon. Pretty scummy to me.

Sounds like the "cause" was "...'cause we don't want to pay for dat chit!" Crappy thing to do.

I've heard about so many problems with Kimbers that every time I unholster mine, I'm like...

 

[trevi]

I own two Wilson Combat CQB's...the first one in 45 acp and the second in 9mm. Both were over $3K

The 45 had failure to feed issues right out of the box. It went back to Wilson (on their dime) and they fixed it.

The 9mm is where the story really goes south. Same thing, failing to feed. At times it seemed the slide couldn't generate enough momentum to strip the next round. Other times it would but would drive the round into the ramp.

I called Wilson and explained the problem to them. Let's just say I didn't feel like they believed me. But they sent a label and the gun went back.

Several weeks later I get the gun back. It's got the same problem. I call Wilson again, explain the problem and that they've already had the gun back once. Lots of discussion on whether I was inducing the malfunctions due to limp wristing, contacting the slide somehow, my crappy ammo, etc. I assured them that this was not my first rodeo, that I was using quality factory ammo, etc. They sent another label and back it goes.

Several weeks later I get the gun back. Do you want to guess the results?

Same problems. So before I call Wilson again, I bust out my camera and shoot five minutes worth of video with close ups of the ammo I was using, an absolutely rock solid grip, that I was shooting with a thumb over thumb hold to make certain no part of my hands were contacting the slide, and, of course, their gun choking on every other round.

I call Wilson. He starts down the path of, "are you sure you're using a solid grip and not contacting the slide?" I cut him off and ask him for his email address. I send him the video and tell him to watch it and then call me back.

10 minutes later I get a call from his boss. He is falling all over himself apologizing for the problems. He tells me to send the gun back one more time and that if they can't get it running right on this trip, they will build me a brand new gun. The gun was FINALLY fixed right.

So...

It seemed clear to me that Wilson deals with a lot of issues that are customer induced. I doubt very seriously that the gun was really looked at on the first two trips back. But their approach to handling this issue was obviously very frustrating...and not what you would expect from a company like Wilson.

I'm two for two with them. Spending more money does not guarantee you a perfect product. Even the high end guys can turn out a crappy product.

If a picture is worth a thousand words, then a video is worth a million. If I ever have a problem with a new factory gun again, I will start with a video. It's pretty hard for them to deny their product is choking if they have it in glorious color video.

Before reading the comments, i was going to say video "every evidence," now all i can say is "ditto!"

 

[Snowbound]

If you are unable to resolve things with Staccato, you may want to contact Dave Dawson at Dawson Precision. He worked at Staccato before forming his own company and is very familiar with the product. I think everyone who has purchased a custom or semi-custom gun, or has had custom work done on a customer-owned gun has at least one or two stories to share. Very frustrating for sure, but a learning experience nonetheless.

 

[aasbra]

Not sure whether this came up in the discussion yet. How did you pay for the firearm you purchased directly from the manufacturer? If you used a credit card, and the purchase was made in June of this year, have you contacted your credit card company to notify them you are not satisfied with the product, you have contacted the manufacturer, and the manufacturer is not honoring the warranty to your satisfaction (if all that all is correct) and see if they will support you by processing a chargeback on the company's merchant account?

I've never had to do this with a firearm, so not sure what level of support your merchant bank and Visa or Mastercard may provide. But in some circumstances, there can be recourse for purchases made with a credit card which you can demonstrate are not fair or appropriate for lack of better words.

I hope you can get appropriate resolution. It really doesn't set well with me to buy something with perceived quality and value, only to find issues. And then, for the company not to stand behind it. As another member noted, I've had very good warranty response from Ruger and CZ when I reached out to them. And they are at a lower price point than what you are talking about.