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to me, it feels lighter than 5 especially when it starts forcing the reset and doing what its designed to do. it takes some getting used to.

at a minimum, youre doing double taps unless you squeeze the trigger hard. doing that will hold the bolt to the rear. i havent been able to shoot single rounds other than squeezing the trigger hard and holding it back after the shot.
Good review, if it can’t fire one round reliably that’s less interesting to me. Still SUPER cool, but I really wouldn’t want to be committed to a two round burst every time. Now I have even more to ponder!
 

Tony617

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I watched the video and the trigger does not make a full auto weapon since you still have to pull the trigger. When the guys shoot their AR15 it does sound like full auto mode even it is not. Hope they win their lawsuit.
 

ilikegunspdx

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I watched the video and the trigger does not make a full auto weapon since you still have to pull the trigger. When the guys shoot their AR15 it does sound like full auto mode even it is not. Hope they win their lawsuit.
Agree. ATF's argument won't hold water under scrutiny using the "one pull of the trigger" existing definition. My guess is ATF will fight this for a long time and eventually they will have to change their definition of what a machine gun is to something different than "one pull of the trigger".

That is why their proposed brace ban is so important because it might set a precedent. In it they say they are changing the definition of what a rifle is. Keep in mind this proposed definition change is included in regulations for PISTOLS, not rifles.

IMO ATF is trying to broaden their powers one step at a time. I think the brace ban is to set the stage for an assault weapons ban coming soon (at least in ATF's eyes). I wouldn't be surprised if the assault weapons ban draft language isn't already written based on some of the precedents contained in the brace ban. That is why it's so important to fight the brace ban.
 
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I like it. Wont use it. But I don't like any 3 letter agency telling what I cannot do.
Unfortunately You really don't have a choice, like it or not. Been collecting for 30 years. It has always been that way and always will be that way. I hate it but I have no choice either. I learned early on in the 90s not to make waves and then I saw Waco and Randy Weaver and decided it would be much better to play than fight. Just be smart about how you play.
 
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Agree. ATF's argument won't hold water under scrutiny using the "one pull of the trigger" existing definition. My guess is ATF will fight this for a long time and eventually they will have to change their definition of what a machine gun is to something different than "one pull of the trigger".

That is why their proposed brace ban is so important because it might set a precedent. In it they say they are changing the definition of what a rifle is. Keep in mind this proposed definition change is included in regulations for PISTOLS, not rifles.

IMO ATF is trying to broaden their powers one step at a time. I think the brace ban is to set the stage for an assault weapons ban coming soon (at least in ATF's eyes). I wouldn't be surprised if the assault weapons ban draft language isn't already written based on some of the precedents contained in the brace ban. That is why it's so important to fight the brace ban.
Changing the law is something they surely can do but without a law passed by the Congress is aint gonna happen and the political will in Congress for any substantive gun control laws at least not with the 50/50 split in the Senate.
 
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Changing the law is something they surely can do but without a law passed by the Congress is aint gonna happen and the political will in Congress for any substantive gun control laws at least not with the 50/50 split in the Senate.
you seem to forget the reputtion of th ATF and they can and do what they plaese with out Congrssional approval when they "choose" to do so.
 
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you seem to forget the reputtion of th ATF and they can and do what they plaese with out Congrssional approval when they "choose" to do so.
That's not actually the case. It certainly is a common perception when they are dealing with vague laws and especially when the don't get called on it. Now they're dealing with RB who actually is putting some legal resources and funding into it. The ATF still has to follow the letter of the law.
 
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That's not actually the case. It certainly is a common perception when they are dealing with vague laws and especially when the don't get called on it. Now they're dealing with RB who actually is putting some legal resources and funding into it. The ATF still has to follow the letter of the law.
They have NEVER received Congressional approval for their rulings. Did they get Congressional approval to burn down a church in Waco or kill a 12 year boy in Idaho? A big "NO" is the answer. They did not get Congressional approval to ban bump stocks............They do what they want and when they want.
 
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They have NEVER received Congressional approval for their rulings. Did they get Congressional approval to burn down a church in Waco or kill a 12 year boy in Idaho? A big "NON" is the answer. They did not get Congressional approval to ban bump stocks............They do what they want and when they want.
They lost on the bumpstock issue. They bent to political pressure on that one and if got shot down as you'd expect. The guys in Waco and Idaho? That wasnt a ruling change.
 
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They lost on the bumpstock issue. They bent to political pressure on that one and if got shot down as you'd expect. The guys in Waco and Idaho? That wasnt a ruling change.
you are purposely missing my point and you seem to think otherwiswe. That's fine if you choose to do so. I am not sure of your age but I am in my 60s and have seen what the ATF "DOES" when they choose to over last the 35 years. My point is Up until now with Chipman. Congress does not get involved with any ATF rulling. So don't tell me that any and all ATF rulings must get Congressional approval because it is simply not so. End of disscusion plain and simple.
The bumpstock issue was reversed by politacal preasure but it was not a full on Congressional approval by vote to do so. Which has always been the case in all ATF rulings. Congress simply does not get involved with ATF's decisions. They ATF put their tail between their legs and left the room with the bump stock issue.
 
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you are purposely missing my point and you seem to think otherwiswe. That's fine if you choose to do so. I am not sure of your age but I am in my 60s and have seen what the ATF "DOES" when they choose to over last the 35 years. My point is Up until now with Chipman. Congress does not get involved with any ATF rulling. So don't tell me that any and all ATF rulings must get Congressional approval because it is simply not so. End of disscusion plain and simple.
I'm sure you've ended your discussion but that not how government agencies work. Congress makes a law. Agencies set rules and enforce laws. The ATF sets rules based on laws passed by Congress . It doesn't go back to Congress for approval on rulings. The courts get involved if they overstep the bounds of the law like you saw happen with bumpstocks and you are seeing play out with RB FRT15 triggers. Waco and Idaho operations were enforcement against people who actually had broken the law and who had resisted arrest. Resisting arrest seldom goes well for the arrest resistor. BLM right?

The bumpstock issue was exactly opposite of what you say. It was pushed through by political pressure and was killed by the courts. Even the ATF said they had no authority to ban bumpstocks but we're ordered to do it by Trump's justice dept.
 
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I'm sure you've ended your discussion but that not how government agencies work. Congress makes a law. Agencies set rules and enforce laws. The ATF sets rules based on laws passed by Congress . It doesn't go back to Congress for approval on rulings. The courts get involved if they overstep the bounds of the law like you saw happen with bumpstocks and you are seeing play out with RB FRT15 triggers. Waco and Idaho operations were enforcement against people who actually had broken the law and who had resisted arrest. Resisting arrest seldom goes well for the arrest resistor. BLM right?

The bumpstock issue was exactly opposite of what you say. It was pushed through by political pressure and was killed by the courts. Even the ATF said they had no authority to ban bumpstocks but we're ordered to do it by Trump's justice dept.
The ATF has always gone beyond what Congress makes law. The ATF has always been a roque department to do what they please when they choose too. I have seen it happen over and over again for 35 years. What else do you need for proof that they are out of control?

Bump stocks may have been killed by the courts but it was not a Congressional vote!
 
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The ATF has always gone beyond what Congress makes laws. The ATF has always been a roque department to do what they please when they choose too. I have seen it happen over and over again for 35 years. What else do you need for proof that they are out of control?

Bump stocks may have been killed by the courts but it was not a Congressional vote!
No, and that's why it was killed by the courts. The executive pushed that through. It wasn't the ATF
 
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Why would it be? Trump told them to do it . They did it knowing it would get thrown out in court . It did.
you previously said that the ATF does not make any ruling with out Congressional approval???????????????????????????????????????????????
 
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