Food for thought on prohibited persons

[IronMonster]

The other thing is probably paid tax when he bought them to sell!

 

[JRuby]

I am saying that he resisted being arrested for breaking the law not once but on many different occasions. He new he was breaking the law and to a certain extant taking sales from legitimate businesses. Businesses where other had to feed their families. I believe you can break laws but be prepared for the. Consequences

 

[IronMonster]

http://video.nydailynews.com/Staten-Island-man-dies-after-NYPD-cop-puts-him-in-chokehold--26426042


I do not see a guy resisting, I see a guy proclaiming he did nothing wrong while 4 or 5 police assaulted him.

He is not violent, he is not threatening, he has no weapon yet his is killed by police while being taken into custody for a minor violation ( which he may not have committed). The cornener ruled his death a homicide, not an accident. There is little room to interpret the events as you seem to.

 

[redmud]

Tyranny has no boundaries or laws to follow.

 

[Gunguy45]

I am saying that he resisted being arrested for breaking the law not once but on many different occasions. He new he was breaking the law and to a certain extant taking sales from legitimate businesses. Businesses where other had to feed their families. I believe you can break laws but be prepared for the. Consequences

Yes, I AM going to necro-reply here.

The "dangerous crime" in which he was engaging was, AT WORST, stealing PENNIES. And yet, it was enforced with violence, which led to his death. (Forget who was right/wrong). ENFORCEMENT of an AT WORST extremely petty crime led to someone's death.

Washington didn't actually say this, (usually erroneously attributed) but it's a terrific quote: "Government is like Fire. A dangerous servant and a Terrible Master."

You seem to be all for giving government mastery over us. If they say Jay-Walking is a felony, your position is that they are felons, deserving entirely of WHATEVER happens to them, no matter how out of whack that consequence has to do with the crime, the motive or the person.

I'm going to say it. That's a despicable notion of government AND crime, not to mention a particularly twisted notion of justice. And frankly, Shame on you for having the absolute gall, in spite of all the information that's been given to you, for holding that opinion.

We are BETTER than what we're doing. And unlike you, apparently, who thinks government can do no wrong, I don't think most Americans think that ripping a tag off a pillow in the store should strip you of fundamental human rights forever. (TRY to get a federal conviction removed from ATF. That program has been defunded for DECADES)

I dare you. I double-DOG dare you to march in any city neighborhood with a sign that says: "Anyone who commits ANY felony, no matter how small or stupid, deserves the HAMMER OF GOD being brought down on them. They are FELONS. Deserving of no sympathy NO MATTER WHAT. Cause the LAW is the LAW! -No matter how stupid and countrt-productive."

March with that sign and see how many sympathetic responses you get.

Even STUPID people grasp that this is an over-reach. But apparently, you're squeaky clean no matter HOW carefully I put an investigator onto you with the unlimited funds of the federal government. What are you going to do when they pass a "thought-crime law?"

 

[Stomper]

Uuuuhhhh.... stop thinking?

 

[Sabertooth]

I have never broken any laws.
If you have removed, disabled or altered any emission device on a motor vehicle you have broken a federal law. The emission control system must be kept in operating condition on a motor vehicle from manufacture to junk yard. No matter where you live. An then we have the country of California.

 

[Redcap]

I have never broken any laws.
If you have removed, disabled or altered any emission device on a motor vehicle you have broken a federal law. The emission control system must be kept in operating condition on a motor vehicle from manufacture to junk yard. No matter where you live. An then we have the country of California.

Not sure if trolling...

 

[Stomper]

I removed the federally mandated flow restrictor from some of my faucets!


That said, IMHO a blanket prohibition of ALL felons is rediculous. Those convicted of a VIOLENT felony are fair game.

 

[IheartSig]

Having worked closely with felons, repeat felons, murderers, rapists, drug dealers, child molesters, car thief's, tax evaders, batterers, abusers and more for the last 9 years or so... what I can tell you is that violent offenders are not the only danger to society. Often times, non violent offenders addicted to drugs escalate into violent behavior. Property crime may be insignificant to you but in many cases it leaves behind wakes of hundreds of thousands of dollars in loss and damage that someone IS on the hook for and in most cases won't even see a fraction of restitution for.

Do we swing the term "felony" around easily? Maybe. Should we retool what long term effects come with the stigma of being a felon? Maybe. Who gets to decide? And on what terms? When does one stop being a felon? When they do their "sentence" ? does that include probation? What about the completion of mandatory rehabilitation courses and fines? Then are they cured?

You raise a point about someone having their rights reinstated after they serve their sentence, but I am here to tell you that a person can serve 2 years or 25 years and still be a monster. A person does not have to engage in only "violent" crimes to irrevocably damage another's life. Perhaps instead of questioning when it is appropriate to break the law and do what we want, we should be asking why we do not have a better system of rehabilitation and/or punishment here in the united states.

 

[IronMonster]

I have broken untold laws, I break several every day. I even sometimes get caught. Why just the other day I got pulled over for doing 49 in a 40 and I had not got my new insurance card in the car. Almost $700 worth of tickets if the cop would have wrote them, However he smiled and said "do better" and sent me on my way.

 

[Monica Cowles]

It starts earlier than the punishment phase...

 

[Just Jim]

It starts earlier than the punishment phase...View attachment 158432 View attachment 158433

Ya a lot of people can't see what cause and effect does to bring out criminal behavior. To me the first thing is to give people a future if you want to have a good society. I look back in history of America and notice that our best times were when most had jobs and our worst criminals were when the economy was broken.

Takes some effort to build a good society, it's going the wrong way now in my opinion and that's why people are buying guns in record number.

 

[IheartSig]

Ya a lot of people can't see what cause and effect does to bring out criminal behavior. To me the first thing is to give people a future if you want to have a good society.

This is a great thought Jim.

 

[IronMonster]

Lets turn this around.

Let's say that you, a honest and upstanding citizen, had a momentary laps of judgment 20 years ago which resulted in you being a convicted felon. Maybe getting caught with enough weed to make it a felony or some other non violent charge that had no victim.

For 20 years you have done nothing worse than maybe get a speeding ticket. Should you have your right to defend yourself with a firearm reinstated? Now we are talking about you, not some random hypothetical person.

My bet is most people can't fathom being that person, but there are those people out there. People sometimes are criminals with no hope of rehabilitation, sometimes people got caught up in a minor non violent criminal act that really is no reflection of who they really are.

I fully support the ability to have rights restored. I think the process should be rigid and rigorous to ensure they are worthy of the gift of clemency

 

[Just Jim]

Lets turn this around.

Let's say that you, a honest and upstanding citizen, had a momentary laps of judgment 20 years ago which resulted in you being a convicted felon. Maybe getting caught with enough weed to make it a felony or some other non violent charge that had no victim.

For 20 years you have done nothing worse than maybe get a speeding ticket. Should you have your right to defend yourself with a firearm reinstated? Now we are talking about you, not some random hypothetical person.

My bet is most people can't fathom being that person, but there are those people out there. People sometimes are criminals with no hope of rehabilitation, sometimes people got caught up in a minor non violent criminal act that really is no reflection of who they really are.

I fully support the ability to have rights restored. I think the process should be rigid and rigorous to ensure they are worthy of the gift of clemency

Don't know if they still do but at one time in Oregon you could petition the court to get some gun rights back. You could own hunting rifles and shotguns but no handguns. You had to show the court you have been a good citizen

What I find odd is they give drunk back a drivers lic even after a number of offenses yet smoke a little pot and you lose your gun rights. Who is more dangerouse?

 

[IronMonster]

Well I can't say I have never smoked pot, but I can say I haven't smoked any for 25 years. I am not a fan of any kind of intoxicant being mixed with firearms. That is not really my point. My point is not everyone who is a felon is a violent criminal. At the same time not every criminal deserves a second chance.

People just assume that felon=bad guy and that may be the case most of the time but it's not in every case.


Maybe you can't imagine yourself in the previous example, but what if it was your child? If you knew they had turned their life around would you want them to have a shot at getting their rights restored?

 

[IronMonster]

What it comes down to for me is I believe in the right to own a firearm. I think that unless someone has shown themselves to be violent or mentally incapable of the responsibility they have the same right to self protection as the rest of us.

 

[Just Jim]

What it comes down to for me is I believe in the right to own a firearm. I think that unless someone has shown themselves to be violent or mentally incapable of the responsibility they have the same right to self protection as the rest of us.

There are a lot of different ways to look at crimes I guess. Used to work with a man that molested the 14 year old baby sitter. He went to prison for 8 years and is now on the sexually offenders list. He can't even be in the same house that has a gun in it. He let his dick do his thinking for him and will pay for the rest of his life.

I have a daughter and I am glad he never got close to her. I don't believe he should get his guns back because of the crime committed. Just my opinion.

 

[IheartSig]

What it comes down to for me is I believe in the right to own a firearm. I think that unless someone has shown themselves to be violent or mentally incapable of the responsibility they have the same right to self protection as the rest of us.

I see your point Ironmonster and I don't disagree on much of what you are saying.

Part of me wants to envision a nation where a person can make a mistake and rebound from it, move on and have a good life, filled with all that comes with it.

Another more cynical part of me thinks about every time I have been confronted with opportunity to take the easy way out, break major laws to my advantage or prey on people.... and remembers that I did the right thing because it was the right thing. Its what I was "supposed" to do. Because its what I would want someone to do for or to me. I'm not perfect, I've made mistakes too. I've done things that were reckless and stupid in my youth. I also knew where to draw the line and when to grow up. If I did it, why didn't they? If they couldn't be a productive member of society then why should they reap the rewards along side those that are?

I guess my point is that from violence and mental instability on one end of the spectrum to Law abiding upstanding member of the community on the other is a pretty wide divide that's filled with all kinds of shades of grey. I know that not all felons are bad people just as I know that all bad people are not necessarily felons. But lets not confuse a percentage of people caught in the "stupid loop" that get felony charges for otherwise innocent mistakes with the bulk of people that find themselves in a Prison doing time.

The line would need to be drawn and drawn well in regards to who would be eligible for this "second chance" and the hoops that one would need to jump through , in my opinion any way, would be massive and not without sacrifice themselves.