Other State Focus on mass shootings ignores main sources of gun violence

[DB is Here]

Focus on mass shootings ignores main sources of gun violence

The way Americans talk about gun violence needs to change. Discussions die down a week or two after mass shootings occur. News of the shooting in Kansas City, Miss. on Oct. 6, 2019 stormed social m…

www.manitoumessenger.com

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[Hueco]

Stronger background checks on all guns are the only way to keep the amount of gun-related deaths down.

Pray tell, what, exactly, is included in a "stronger" background check?

 

[DB is Here]

Pray tell, what, exactly, is included in a "stronger" background check?

Law abiders bending over...

 

[BSG 75]

That article was written by a college student who hasn't even decided on a major yet. I sent her an email. I hope she reads it.

Hello,

I read with great interest your article "Focus on mass shootings ignores main sources of gun violence". I agree with you that disproportionate attention is paid to relatively uncommon mass shootings when in fact most "gun deaths" are suicides (>60%), followed by homicides, which are are disproportionately committed by a small segment of our society.

Expanded Homicide Data Table 3

ucr.fbi.gov

DOJ: Blacks committed about half of all murders in 2015 - Narrative Collapse

DOJ: Blacks committed about half of all murders in […]

narrative-collapse.com

Pointing out the disproportionate blame directed at so-called "assault weapons" is also spot-on, since FBI statistics show there are fewer murders committed annually with so called "assault rifles" (<297 since not all rifles are "assault rifles") than are committed with knives (1,515), blunt objects (443), or hands/fists/feet (672).

Expanded Homicide Data Table 8

ucr.fbi.gov

But then you go off track by stating:

"Stronger background checks on all guns are the only way to keep the amount of gun-related deaths down."

Certainly, background checks have failed time and time again to prevent mass shootings. Most mass shooters passed background checks when they bought guns, including the shooters at Parkland and Las Vegas.

How They Got Their Guns (Published 2015)

A vast majority of guns used in 19 recent mass shootings were bought legally and with a federal background check.

www.nytimes.com

But why do you think "stronger background checks" would do anything to reduce the majority of "gun deaths" - suicides - or homicides?

Background checks don't assess if someone is suicidal now or will be suicidal many years in the future. As the name suggests, all background checks do is check the buyer's background. They check to see if the person is prohibited from possessing firearms - convicted felon, adjudicated mentally incompetent, etc. They can't predict if someone is going to commit suicide next week or 20 years from now, no matter how much "stronger" they are. They can't predict the future. Someone could pass a background check or even a psychological test now, buy a gun, and then get depressed 20 or 30 or 40 years later and shoot themselves. In fact, most people who commit suicide with a gun are older white men who might have purchased their guns years or decades before they shot themselves.

White Men Over 50 Most Likely to Use Gun in Suicide

Boston University is a leading private research institution with two primary campuses in the heart of Boston and programs around the world.

www.bu.edu

When it comes to homicides, again background checks are almost useless. Most criminals don't buy guns at a store or a gun show, they get them from family, friends, "on the street", or from theft.

New Report on Where Criminals Get Their Guns | National Review

It would be very difficult to regulate most of these transactions.

www.nationalreview.com

You can pass a so-called "universal" background check law, as many states have, but it isn't enforceable. Criminals buy and sell guns in homes, parking lots, etc. You can't have a cop in every home, business, parking lot, etc. watching to see if someone is buying or selling a gun without a background check.

To use a favorite phrase used by gun control advocates, it should be "common sense" that background checks fail to prevent mass shootings, suicides, or homicides, but there is also data to back it up. California has had "universal" background checks for many years, but they haven't had a significant impact on "gun violence".

California's comprehensive background check and misdemeanor violence prohibition policies and firearm mortality

• CBC/MVP policies were not associated with changes in firearm homicides in California.
• Changes in firearm suicides were similar to changes in nonfirearm suicides.
• The null findings in California are consistent with other recent CBC evaluations.

California's comprehensive background check and misdemeanor violence prohibition policies and firearm mortality

In 1991, California implemented a law that mandated a background check for all firearm purchases with limited exceptions (comprehensive background che…

www.sciencedirect.com

Yes, we must do more to reduce "gun violence". That would include more efforts directed at suicide prevention and mental health in general, and dealing with the underlying social pathology that causes 13% of the population to commit 50% of murders. Those methods have a chance of working. "Stronger background checks" do nothing but waste the time and money (millions of dollars a year) of sane and law-abiding gun purchasers.

One time I went to a gun show and bought guns from 4 different sellers. I had to take and pay for 4 background checks on the same day, to satisfy the people who passed the law that said a background check has to be performed every time a gun is sold at a gun show, no matter how many background checks I had already passed that day. Really? Seriously? How did my passing and paying for the second and third and fourth background check that day make society safer?

 

[Hueco]

That article was written by a college student who hasn't even decided on a major yet. I sent her an email. I hope she reads it.

I'd very much be interested in the response, if there is one.

Very well written email as well!

 

[ma96782]

From the article:

Although mass shootings are tragic, the broader focus of anti-gun activism has to be suicide and homicide prevention. Assault weapons should be banned, but that legislation would have no effect on other gun-related deaths.

Rrrrright...... Any AW Weapon ban would just be the lead into more anti-gun laws and/or (Beto style) confiscation. Don't compromise with their schemes. And, you can't trust them with UBC either.

Rrrrright....... Because the Germans (later the NAZIs) also made gun laws to ensure that only "good citizens" got their gun rights. See how that turned out.



Aloha, Mark

 

[WoodsPlinker]

Is it just me or is the suicide prevention narrative coming from gun banners a new thing in recent years?

I feel like firearm related deaths have gotten so low that suicides is higher and now they've adopted that as a new thing. Or was it always high and I just never noticed?

It's sad that just because a firearm is a convenient tool for suicides that idiots think if there are less of them there would be less lemmings in the world.

Uh no, they'll just use something else.

 

[Hueco]

Is it just me or is the suicide prevention narrative coming from gun banners a new thing in recent years?

I feel like firearm related deaths have gotten so low that suicides is higher and now they've adopted that as a new thing. Or was it always high and I just never noticed?

It's sad that just because a firearm is a convenient tool for suicides that idiots think if there are less of them there would be less lemmings in the world.

Uh no, they'll just use something else.

There's a significant portion of people who attempt suicide, fail, and then do not attempt again. This would suggest that, if we could somehow cause more suicide attempts to fail on the first go around, that we could, in the end, save more lives.

Many suicides happen and those around the victim never knew they were suicidal in the first place. If successful, the victim is dead. If unsuccessful, they can get the help they need (and now everyone around them *knows* they need that help).

The thought is that, if you can get guns out of the hands of suicidal men and women...that you'll save their lives.

This is just another gilded brick on the road to hell.

For one, men predominantly use firearms followed by suffocation. There's little reason to think that, if firearms were restricted, that the rate of use of suffocation would not grow (in fact, in the UK, suffocation ranks highest). So, taking the gun out of the equation doesn't really solve for the fact that men will use a more violent or lethal method in their attempt.

But, even if you were to grant that without firearms, some men would be unsuccessful in a suffocation method and would thus be saved...the discussion of how to prevent a suicidal man from acquiring a firearm in the first place rarely takes place. But, let's look at it now:

Men rarely reach out for help...meaning even the most noble of use of a red flag law will not work.
Researching through someone's psych evals or medical history would violate HIPAA and possibly other fundamental rights to privacy, protection against search and seizure, etc.

So, there is no way to curb male suicide via firearm without ensuring that there are no firearms anywhere in the country. And, even if this were possible, you would simply change the predominant method, not necessarily save lives.

This sort of discussion is what I refer to as "playing chess while your opponent plays hopscotch." One of us is thinking about the end goal and attempting to find the best way there in a complex system. The other is simply happy they can bounce on one leg.

 

[WoodsPlinker]

Many suicides happen and those around the victim never knew they were suicidal in the first place.

I had a friend in highschool commit suicide via carbon monoxide by turning a car on in his garage and went to sleep. Were there signs? Maybe, he spent a lot of time talking about how his family hated him and made up stories about having mental conditions he didn't have.

What I mistook as possibly being chronic liar might have been a cry for attention. He never mentioned the issues he had that were in the note he left behind, but was very open and talkative right up to a few weeks before his death.

I can't help but think if I'd talked more with him and been trained to recognize the patterns or thought processes in someone with that condition he might still be on this planet today.

So maybe you are right, but maybe more awareness in schools for the signs of someone who is hurting. In a sea of self centered callous young adults it's hard to instill compassion and understanding at that age in people so.... Not really sure how much of a culture shift could really be done there.

Young men seem to have the reason of young women as the issue. We definitely need to reinforce that there are plenty of fish in the sea and there is no magic girl that is "the one". In the note he mentioned betrayal in that area as his main reason.

My mom worked in the ICU and said most men that ended up there from attempts were because of girls and most women that showed up there were for female issues whatever that meant. I'm also not sure if that was just her experience or reflects the actual statistical norm.