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[QUOTE="albin25, post: 1352630, member: 28250"

"Why the Gun is Civilization...
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me, or causing me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a lone gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the physically strong, and the mob, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a "Monopoly of Force".

Some argue that a gun makes confrontations lethal that would otherwise only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes deadly force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I will only be ruled by reason and agreement, not by force. I don't carry it because of fear, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation … and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
"[/QUOTE]

This is the best thing I've read...On the subject of getting anti gun people to think.
On the other hand, though..... As I've gotten older, 60ish, I've realized that the people I am around that are anti firearm/self protection aren't even going to look at that writing for more than a couple of sentences, if that. They are so 110% brainwashed they won't see, no, they don't see because they are so far in denial of the reality of the issue! These people won't even consider allowing us, law abiding firearms owners, to do our thing.

I'm still in the middle, as I grew up without washing of the brain either way. I see their side, and I see our side, and the times I've tried to educate one of the anti's you see their eyes go blank. I realize that look means what I'm trying to do there is a 110% waste of time. I've come to the conclusion that we will always be us, and they will always be them.

I wish the OP luck, and wish I had something constructive to add.
 
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[QUOTE="albin25, post: 1352630, member: 28250"

"Why the Gun is Civilization...
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me, or causing me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a lone gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the physically strong, and the mob, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a "Monopoly of Force".

Some argue that a gun makes confrontations lethal that would otherwise only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes deadly force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I will only be ruled by reason and agreement, not by force. I don't carry it because of fear, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation … and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
"

This is the best thing I've read...On the subject of getting anti gun people to think.
On the other hand, though..... As I've gotten older, 60ish, I've realized that the people I am around that are anti firearm/self protection aren't even going to look at that writing for more than a couple of sentences, if that. They are so 110% brainwashed they won't see, no, they don't see because they are so far in denial of the reality of the issue! These people won't even consider allowing us, law abiding firearms owners, to do our thing.

I'm still in the middle, as I grew up without washing of the brain either way. I see their side, and I see our side, and the times I've tried to educate one of the anti's you see their eyes go blank. I realize that look means what I'm trying to do there is a 110% waste of time. I've come to the conclusion that we will always be us, and they will always be them.

I wish the OP luck, and wish I had something constructive to add.[/QUOTE] I would include emotion with reason & force as the three that govern most interactions.
 
Maybe you should get something coordinated with these guys Raidingtime. upload_2015-11-22_17-46-52.png
The Pink Pistols, which advocates lawful use of legally-carried concealed firearms for the self-defense of the sexual minority community, currently has 29 chapters in the United States and two chapters in Canada. All chapters are autonomous, but look to the international office for coordination.http://www.pinkpistols.org/
 
Update:

A NWFA member and fellow student and I are currently attempting to set up an info booth on conceal carry at PSU.

I contacted the Veterans Resource Center at PSU to see if they could point me in the right direction. A front desk worker there, Eric, showed me the way to the students organization office. When I got there this happened:

Jonathan, the secretary, professionally greeted me. He asked what I planned to present at the info booth and I told him about my idea of informing the student population about conceal carry and the purpose of the 2nd amendment. His attitude nearly instantly changed and told me "that he's a father to a 4 year old daughter and that I could shove my gun up my bubblegum." He then claimed that he has had 2 family members die from conceal carrying individuals. I maintained a mild temper and polite demeanor throughout the entire conversation. This sounded suspicious but I did not continue the "debate". I responded by asking for more information on how to set up my booth. He then continued to give me the necessary information which was very helpful in contacting the appropriate people to organize such an event.

I am now in the process of creating Portland States Universities "Students for Conceal Carry" student organization. I'm awaiting for more members to join (5 members minimum). I'm going to advertise the group within the Veteran Affairs resource center because the veteran population tends to be more pro constitutional and human rights. I hope to fulfill the minimum requirements fairly easily once I get the word out.

I'm excited to get this thing going. I expect more confrontations such as Jonathan. I look forward to being able to bring awareness and understanding of the 2nd amendment.
 
Thinking about leaving my American Rifleman magazines at my gym
(contact info cut out of course).

Leave them in the mag rack.. Also perhaps bring them to my dentist and doctors just to piss them off.

Funny you say that the magazines might piss off your Doctor & Dentist. Depending on the weather I carry open to my Doc & Dentist & nobody has even blinked. I was CC at the Doctor's once & was asked to remove my jacket for a blood draw. I just told the nurse I was carrying & she said, "OK. Thanks for letting me know" and everything went as normal. When the Dr. came in a couple of minutes later to talk I still had my jacket off & he barely glanced at my hip. Maybe the Adventist health system has a different approach than others because of their religious beliefs. I was raised in a similar belief system - we just went to church on Sunday & weren't vegetarians.
 
Update:

A NWFA member and fellow student and I are currently attempting to set up an info booth on conceal carry at PSU.

I contacted the Veterans Resource Center at PSU to see if they could point me in the right direction. A front desk worker there, Eric, showed me the way to the students organization office. When I got there this happened:

Jonathan, the secretary, professionally greeted me. He asked what I planned to present at the info booth and I told him about my idea of informing the student population about conceal carry and the purpose of the 2nd amendment. His attitude nearly instantly changed and told me "that he's a father to a 4 year old daughter and that I could shove my gun up my bubblegum." He then claimed that he has had 2 family members die from conceal carrying individuals. I maintained a mild temper and polite demeanor throughout the entire conversation. This sounded suspicious but I did not continue the "debate". I responded by asking for more information on how to set up my booth. He then continued to give me the necessary information which was very helpful in contacting the appropriate people to organize such an event.

I am now in the process of creating Portland States Universities "Students for Conceal Carry" student organization. I'm awaiting for more members to join (5 members minimum). I'm going to advertise the group within the Veteran Affairs resource center because the veteran population tends to be more pro constitutional and human rights. I hope to fulfill the minimum requirements fairly easily once I get the word out.

I'm excited to get this thing going. I expect more confrontations such as Jonathan. I look forward to being able to bring awareness and understanding of the 2nd amendment.

Excellent idea & carry-through! Keep up the good work.
 
Dude. you have more stone than I. I've been around liberals both there on PSU and at other situations, and they will attack you with a vitriol you will find stunning--and probably painful. They will report you to the administration in an effort to have you expelled and thrown off campus, they will physically assault you and get in your face to the extent that you will have to touch them just to keep your footing then swear out a warrant for battery. And they will lie, scream, shout and do everything they can to silence you. They are unable to debate and the marketplace of ideas is hostile to them, so they will fight dirty. Be prepared.
 
Thinking about leaving my American Rifleman magazines at my gym
(contact info cut out of course).

Leave them in the mag rack.. Also perhaps bring them to my dentist and doctors just to piss them off.

The guys from the range I used to shoot at down south had a "magazine seeding program" where all members would donate any unwanted gun magazines with personal info removed and we would leave a few each time any of us had a doctor or dentist appointment.
 
Dude. you have more stone than I. I've been around liberals both there on PSU and at other situations, and they will attack you with a vitriol you will find stunning--and probably painful. They will report you to the administration in an effort to have you expelled and thrown off campus, they will physically assault you and get in your face to the extent that you will have to touch them just to keep your footing then swear out a warrant for battery. And they will lie, scream, shout and do everything they can to silence you. They are unable to debate and the marketplace of ideas is hostile to them, so they will fight dirty. Be prepared.

Thanks for the heads up. I'm expecting a good amount of resistance. I won't tolerate intimidation. I will do what's necessary to be treated respectfully and fairly.

I understand people may not agree with my message which is fine. I'm not expecting to change everyone's mind to think the way I do. However, i am entitled to my own opinions and free speech.

The main focus of the organization is going to be targeting minorities, women, lgbt, etc. so that the public will recognize that the right of self defense is a right for all people. I want to break the stereotype that implies that only middle aged white heterosexual males support the 2nd amendment and conceal carry.
 
My daughter went to PSU3 or 4 years ago and was a member of the student Republican club. It was full of minorities, women and foreign born, a true "rainbow" of people. The leftist/socialist student groups were virtually all white and mostly males. The meeting announcements for the Republican club would be torn down so often that they had to be put in locked display cases if available (teach tolerance, yeah, right). Good luck to you. I have considered going back to college just to piss off profs by challenging their ideas. So give me an "F", prof. OOOH, I'm so hurt. Geeze, I'm 65 so my "give a sh!t" factor is pretty low.
 
My daughter went to PSU3 or 4 years ago and was a member of the student Republican club. It was full of minorities, women and foreign born, a true "rainbow" of people. The leftist/socialist student groups were virtually all white and mostly males. The meeting announcements for the Republican club would be torn down so often that they had to be put in locked display cases if available (teach tolerance, yeah, right). Good luck to you. I have considered going back to college just to piss off profs by challenging their ideas. So give me an "F", prof. OOOH, I'm so hurt. Geeze, I'm 65 so my "give a sh!t" factor is pretty low.

haha I would welcome you and your viewpoints. Any idea backed by justice, dignity, and logic has my respect.

For added confusion, I'm a dirty bubblegum liberal socialist Bernie Sanders supporter ;)
 
For added confusion, I'm a dirty bubblegum liberal socialist Bernie Sanders supporter ;)

You support someone who wants to make all semiautomatic firearms illegal. Why bother trying to convert anti's if you're going to vote for someone who wants to take our rights away?


Ray
 
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haha I would welcome you and your viewpoints. Any idea backed by justice, dignity, and logic has my respect.

For added confusion, I'm a dirty bubblegum liberal socialist Bernie Sanders supporter ;)
That is confusing but the important Question is...........
You don't support Kate Brown and the other staunchly anti-gun Progs, aka Democrats, currently dominating Oregon Politics do you???:eek::eek::eek:
 
Here's the thing...

If 20-40% of Democrats actually wrote e-mails, hand letters, and made phone calls to their elected representatives with the message "enough is enough! Hands off law abiding citizens' guns!" the Democratic party would quickly take a different tune about gun control.

Simply put, this country is very polarized along party lines. The demographic shifts in this country are quite clear (more minorities) and this will absolutely shift which party consistently stays in office.

Gun rights can not be supported solely by the Republican party. If you're gambling that this will pay off for you in the long run, you will lose.


We absolutely need more women, sexual minorities, and ethnic groups to recognize the critical importance of the Second Amendment. These groups typically vote Democrat. Now how can we get them to support gun rights?

Though I don't agree with Bernie (and especially Hillary Clinton) and won't vote for him, my fiance is voting for him. She carries a handgun everywhere and shoots frequently. Gun rights supporters NEED people like her to 1) be public about their support of the Second Amendment and 2) letting Democrat politicians know to keep their laws and hands off her guns.
 
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