Flyers and Pro CHL information in liberal areas

[Raidingtime]

Hello,

I'm currently looking to provide productive firearm conservations and information around the Portland State University campus. PSU, no surprise to most, is generally speaking antigun. The campus has limited exposure of progun clubs and information on campus. Many teachers discuss and teach many antigun ideas within their classrooms. Much of the information they disseminate on campus is untrue. Something ought to be done.

I want to bring awareness regarding gun control and the other side of the debate. I want to bring a conversation to the PSU campus about the benefits of CHL holders on campus. Currently, CHL holders, along with everyone else, are not allowed to bring firearms on campus according to school policy.

I want to bring the discussion about firearms in a way that targets many of the social issues surrounding the population at PSU. Gay marriage, human rights, equal rights, NSA, etc. are common topics at PSU. I believe if I'm able to find a niche in presenting firearm knowledge with relating to these issues PSU students may be more forth coming about a discussion of firearms, CHLs, and governmental regulation. I've personally experienced many students that choose to tune out any discussion about firearms because they're convinced that owning firearms is a major public health hazard.

Anyways, I would like to hear if anyone else on here would have good ideas on how to begin a discussion about firearms at PSU. Any ideas for flyers is also appreciated. Feel free to post on this forum or to email me directly.

Thanks!

To start off this forum I will include examples of fliers that I think would be appropriate at PSU.

Raidingtime

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[Joe13]

This is one of those posts where I ranted on for 3 pages. I deleted it all and this is me not commenting...

 

[edison bulb]

Excellent idea! Flyers that target minorities and women are critical. Flyers that show minorities and women carrying firearms for self-defense will appeal to many students on campus.

There are 30,000 students at Portland State University. One would be foolish to think a whacko massshooter or a terrorist doesn't exist on campus.

Students and staff with CHLs are critical!

 

[etrain16]

This is one of those posts where I ranted on for 3 pages. I deleted it all and this is me not commenting...

Well shoot. I think I might have enjoyed reading that

 

[Raidingtime]

This is one of those posts where I ranted on for 3 pages. I deleted it all and this is me not commenting...

Well Joe you're on the podium. Lets here some ideas to help inform uninformed students and faculty.

 

[albin25]

I don't know where this came from or who originally penned it, but this printed on a simple page and those pages tucked into each book in a college library may convince some that have the good sense to read it.

"Why the Gun is Civilization...
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me, or causing me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a lone gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the physically strong, and the mob, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a "Monopoly of Force".

Some argue that a gun makes confrontations lethal that would otherwise only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes deadly force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I will only be ruled by reason and agreement, not by force. I don't carry it because of fear, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation … and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act. "

 

[tkdguy]

Marketing Idea: Protect your self against ISIS--Get an Oregon CHL (this message is overlaid over faded images of the ISIS carnage that has taken place in Europe or the Boston bombing.

I'm guessing that if there is a "mall attack" citizens will come running for CHL permits.

 

[fxdc]

Marketing Idea: Protect your self against ISIS--Get an Oregon CHL (this message is overlaid over faded images of the ISIS carnage that has taken place in Europe or the Boston bombing.

I'm guessing that if there is a "mall attack" citizens will come running for CHL permits.

There is already a spike in CCW permits nation wide. Because of Paris.

 

[nammac]

Time to restock the ammo supply before the shelves run dry...

Increased firearms sales... Increased CHL Holders.... All
Those new sidearms need to be properly fed ....

Just sayin'

 

[Mark W.]

Time to restock the ammo supply before the shelves run dry...

In teased firearms sales... Increased CHL Holders.... All
Those new sidearms need to be properly fed ....

Just sayin'

Sorry no room left on the shelves in the toy room.

 

[Raidingtime]

I don't know where this came from or who originally penned it, but this printed on a simple page and those pages tucked into each book in a college library may convince some that have the good sense to read it.

"Why the Gun is Civilization...
Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me, or causing me to do your bidding under threat of force. Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it.

In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gangbanger, and a lone gay guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats. The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender.

There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat–it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed. People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the physically strong, and the mob, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a "Monopoly of Force".

Some argue that a gun makes confrontations lethal that would otherwise only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways. Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes deadly force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weightlifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I will only be ruled by reason and agreement, not by force. I don't carry it because of fear, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation … and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act. "

I like this post a lot and I believe that it will reach my target audience. Good idea on ways to hand out the information. It all has to be underground at Psu unfortunately.

 

[Raidingtime]

Time to restock the ammo supply before the shelves run dry...

In teased firearms sales... Increased CHL Holders.... All
Those new sidearms need to be properly fed ....

Just sayin'

And here I'm still looking for 147 grain hsts. I only have two boxes at the moment and they're feeding all the mags for my shield.

 

[Raidingtime]

There is already a spike in CCW permits nation wide. Because of Paris.

I believe there's been a spike in chl applications since our president has pursued firearm restrictions. Took me about 6 months to get mine for Oregon..

 

[Joe13]

Ok, so the short version was this:

Most likely the fliers will get the same attention that I give religious pamphlets, just enough to get it in the trash...

I am ALL for educating the opposition but feel like if your going to try and do that there must be a better way.

I have an anti-gun daughter and it is on par with talking religion or politics; until she (they) are willing and open to listening to the facts, I/we may as well try to convince people guns are magic wands that spew fire and ice for all they will believe it.

Not knocking the idea behind it, I just think you will be wasting a lot of time to maybe reach less then a percent of the number of fliers sent out.

Only time I've ever been able to change someone's mind about guns was to sit down and show them how they work and then take them to shoot them.

Maybe if you could hand out coupons to that new indoor range in camas it would be a win win. They get advertisement and we get to have them educate the public one person at a time.

Honestly, I don't have a better idea but know enough anti gun people to know that you are starting off with them closed off and not willing to listen to reason.

 

[ZA_Survivalist]

Thinking about leaving my American Rifleman magazines at my gym
(contact info cut out of course).

Leave them in the mag rack.. Also perhaps bring them to my dentist and doctors just to piss them off.

 

[41Slinger]

I'm on the same page with Joe13. Best way to flip em is to put a fun gun (black rifle with lots o boolits and reactive targets) in their hand and have a good time, hard to do on campus, keep tryin though, that's what we have to do. Thanks for your thoughts and efforts.

 

[etrain16]

So it sounds like a good option, considering the comments given here, would be, if you're up to it, to put up fliers inviting folks that may want to learn more about guns, to either go shooting, or perhaps to attend a meeting/talk about guns, where actual guns would be available for them to see and handle. My guess is there would be no chance in heck that PSU would allow such a meeting on campus (scary guns and all that). But I like the ideas above - you really won't change anyone's mind with a poster, flyer, postcard. It has to be one on one. They need to see, feel, experience guns for themselves so they can see they are not the scary things the media and their instructors tell them they are.

I attended PSU for a year back in 1988, then left for another school. It was the strangest campus I ever attended, and, by far, the least friendly to more conservative viewpoints such as my own. My conservative views were definitely not ones that were welcomed in classroom discussion. It was kind of my first taste of what I would be experiencing as I moved out into the world on my own.

 

[Raidingtime]

So it sounds like a good option, considering the comments given here, would be, if you're up to it, to put up fliers inviting folks that may want to learn more about guns, to either go shooting, or perhaps to attend a meeting/talk about guns, where actual guns would be available for them to see and handle. My guess is there would be no chance in heck that PSU would allow such a meeting on campus (scary guns and all that). But I like the ideas above - you really won't change anyone's mind with a poster, flyer, postcard. It has to be one on one. They need to see, feel, experience guns for themselves so they can see they are not the scary things the media and their instructors tell them they are.

I attended PSU for a year back in 1988, then left for another school. It was the strangest campus I ever attended, and, by far, the least friendly to more conservative viewpoints such as my own. My conservative views were definitely not ones that were welcomed in classroom discussion. It was kind of my first taste of what I would be experiencing as I moved out into the world on my own.

I understand that I will not convince most people to think otherwise. I'm hoping to at least plant a small seed. There's quite a few people that are on the fence about the issue. These fliers and short discussions are meant to get grab peoples attention for a brief second. Kinda like giving an ice cream cone to a citizen in the book 1984. I'm not trying to convince people that have "made up their minds" about the problem because they're too far gone for me to waste my time on them at this point. I'm focusing on people that understand their ignorance in the matter and are somewhat open minded.

I think having a booth with firearms presented, in a safe manner obviously (firing pins and magazines removed), would be one of the best ways to do something like this. No way in hell would PSU ever allow this though. I think the buck stops at paintball guns.

I agree with taking people shooting is the single best way to open their eyes. I have done this technique with family members that are opposed to firearms and have had good results.

Isn't it funny how firearm ignorant people freak out when they find out your conceal carry gun has one in the chamber and no safety? This seems to be the biggest surprise to people I take shooting .

 

[Joe13]

Isn't it funny how firearm ignorant people freak out when they find out your conceal carry gun has one in the chamber and no safety? This seems to be the biggest surprise to people I take shooting .

Yes it is

My dad (Vietnam Vet with untreated ptsd) has no love of guns even though he grew up hunting and feels the world would be better with none (I sometimes wonder if my hippie mom stepped out on my dad once and here I am...).

He grabbed a coat that had my pistol in it and threw it in a chair to make room for him to sit. As it hit the chair he heard my gun hit the wood and jumped 3 feet high and 6 feet back like a bomb had gone off.

I looked at him and asked, "Do you think I'm so stupid as to carry a loaded gun that would go off just by dropping it in a chair? It's perfectly safe". He had no response and quickly changed the subject.

 

[etrain16]

I understand that I will not convince most people to think otherwise. I'm hoping to at least plant a small seed. There's quite a few people that are on the fence about the issue. These fliers and short discussions are meant to get grab peoples attention for a brief second. Kinda like giving an ice cream cone to a citizen in the book 1984. I'm not trying to convince people that have "made up their minds" about the problem because they're too far gone for me to waste my time on them at this point. I'm focusing on people that understand their ignorance in the matter and are somewhat open minded.

I think having a booth with firearms presented, in a safe manner obviously (firing pins and magazines removed), would be one of the best ways to do something like this. No way in hell would PSU ever allow this though. I think the buck stops at paintball guns.

I agree with taking people shooting is the single best way to open their eyes. I have done this technique with family members that are opposed to firearms and have had good results.

Isn't it funny how firearm ignorant people freak out when they find out your conceal carry gun has one in the chamber and no safety? This seems to be the biggest surprise to people I take shooting .

One thing I failed to say in my response above, is that I fully support any effort made to bring folks over from the dark side. If you can win a few over or even get them thinking more positively about guns with the flyers, then I am certainly all for it. I wish you much success. I've got a couple of folks at work I've been gently working on for a while now. May even get one family to come out shooting one day. They're CA transplants with an anti-gun mindset. But I do work with a lot of pro-gun folks too and I think we're beginning to correct their CA 'disease'