Florida police officer fired for bringing targets resembling Trayvon Martin

[Father of four]

If a trainee screws up and engages an unarmed target (even if it resembles some young street hood..) based on prejudice or stereotype or just plain mistake, then the instructor can provide extra training to remediate his bad decision.

That is not what is being talked about there.

 

[Sportfury70]

You must know Dianne Feinstein...

So by your logic if a pregnant lady pulls a gun starts shooting at you, or a kid shoots a convenience store clerk to steal money, then according to you they should just be left alone and allowed to do as they please. Because, you know, age, gender, and physical state means that you can kill without fear of consequence.

The purpose of the target is to teach to engage the THREAT, regardless of what ever is shooting at you looks like.

 

[Father of four]

Nope, but what I imagine is that you are the LEO breaking down the wrong door of someones house at 3am in the morning and shooting the pregnant lady who has her firearm in her hand trying to protect her family from what she thinks is a bad guy who just broke into her home.

 

[Father of four]

Then maybe there is the child who picked up the gun and points it at you and you just shoot and kill him instead of trying to give him a chance to put it down.

 

[Sportfury70]

Dianne,

You are going far beyond the scope of my argument. There is a purpose to these targets, and they only take up a fraction of a proper weapons training program. I was trying to educate the readers on the counter point to your biased statement. Hypothetical scenarios are just that, hypothetical.

Have fun trashing cops and telling strangers they shouldn't own weapons just for validating an argument.

You are no longer worth my time.

/

 

[Father of four]

You are going far beyond the scope of my argument.

Maybe you should leave this thread then if you cant comprehend what I am saying and stop arguing.

 

[308]

These "targets" are a great training tool. When was the last time someone was shot by a bullseye carrying a gun....

Maybe some of us are interested in hitting a bulls-eye and haven't the desire to shoot another human being.
I know that seems a bit odd for all the keyboard tacticians...lol

 

[RVTECH]

Except that Trayvon was not a criminal, not a suspect, not charged with anything, not doing anything at the time of the confrontation.

Point taken.

 

[RVTECH]

Those targets, are they the criminals you are taking about?

Not at all. Please read below.

A History Channel program shows the early FBI shooting at a picture of John Dillinger. Look at all the printable targets that were available (and probably still are) of Osama Bin Laden and several others - and these do not just resemble them - they are pictures of them.

 

[MountainBear]

If training to shoot pregnant women and little kids is OK in you eyes then I think you are mentally warped and should not be allowed to own a firearm!!!

What if the pregnant woman or kid was pointing a gun at you? Then are you allowed? Not all targets can be stereotyped. The unfortunate reality is that threats come in all shapes and sizes. Its very similar to the problem they were having with "double-tap" drills. They found officers were getting shot because instead of shooting until the threat stopped, they were shooting two rounds and then dropping to ready.
Shoot to stop the threat, regardless of what it looks like...

 

[oknow]

Who the #*$%& says the poster of a hoody = Trayvon Martin.

Last time I checked, neither the Constitution, Bill of Rights or the Word of God says anyone has the right to "not be offended"
People just need to stfu and go back to whatever meaningless existence they have and leave others alone.

they have nothing better to do while they are waiting for their obozo check

 

[oknow]

If he would have just put a gun in trayvon's hand, he would have been okay. I mean if the DHS can do it,,,

DHS training with practice targets featuring children, pregnant woman? | Washington Times Communities

but they were white so that's ok

 

[oknow]

Except that Trayvon was not a criminal, not a suspect, not charged with anything, not doing anything at the time of the confrontation. Should police officers put up posters of other crime victims?

how so

 

[Father of four]

What if the pregnant woman or kid was pointing a gun at you? Then are you allowed? Not all targets can be stereotyped. The unfortunate reality is that threats come in all shapes and sizes. Its very similar to the problem they were having with "double-tap" drills. They found officers were getting shot because instead of shooting until the threat stopped, they were shooting two rounds and then dropping to ready.
Shoot to stop the threat, regardless of what it looks like...

It is not about being aloud to shoot back. It is a picture of a pregnant women and kids that law enforcement are practicing shooting at!!!! It just is not right to me!!!! And the target holding the iced tea and skittles is nothing more then a heartless cop trying to make fun of someone he considered a thug and worthy of death. So why not make a target that reminds him of the thug and shoot at it. And laugh about it and pass it on to other heartless cops who know who they would be pretend shooting at.

I am just guessing, I could be wrong, but I saw his youtube video and I think he is lying. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oonckYOhhy4

I bet you many, many good officers would not do that type of crap and shoot at targets of pregnant women and little kids, but you guys go ahead and try to make it sound all nice and respectful. It aint.

 

[Father of four]

Nope, but what I imagine is that you are the LEO breaking down the wrong door of someones house at 3am in the morning and shooting the pregnant lady who has her firearm in her hand trying to protect her family from what she thinks is a bad guy who just broke into her home.

Say mountainbear, would you have the ladies back in my hypothetical above at her shooting until the threat is removed or it just for the LEOs?

You talk about "us vs them" but I don't hear you say much about getting them to calm down on their side. These types of targets and the LEOS militarized ways were not heard of a couple decades ago. Cops where considered the good guys, the ones we could count on to help. Some still are but read the comments from various websites of news reports with LE involved and see what the people think. Ask around and see what people think today. Trust in LE has diminished. It is not just us no-LEOs that is only causing problems with citizen and LE relations.

Shooting at targets of pregnant women and little kids, they should to be ashamed!

 

[Father of four]

May I suggest you guys also read this post....http://www.northwestfirearms.com/le...p-buddy-will-take-your-guns-7.html#post862976


And maybe check the likes here to see what people feel....http://www.northwestfirearms.com/st...ets-resembling-trayvon-martin.html#post862173

 

[MountainBear]

Then maybe there is the child who picked up the gun and points it at you and you just shoot and kill him instead of trying to give him a chance to put it down.

Would you give him the same chance if a person was pointing the gun at you? Or would you pull your weapon, move to cover, and prepare to defend yourself?

 

[Father of four]

I would not practice shooting at pregnant ladies or small children. If a pregnant lady or a small child pulled a gun on me I would try to take cover and try to reason with them.

 

[Father of four]

If I noticed it was a cop I would try to put my firearm down and hope he was a good cop and not empty his clip at me.

 

[MountainBear]

Say mountainbear, would you have the ladies back in my hypothetical above at her shooting until the threat is removed or it just for the LEOs?

You talk about "us vs them" but I don't hear you say much about getting them to calm down on their side. These types of targets and the LEOS militarized ways were not heard of a couple decades ago. Cops where considered the good guys, the ones we could count on to help. Some still are but read the comments from various websites of news reports with LE involved and see what the people think. Ask around and see what people think today. Trust in LE has diminished. It is not just us no-LEOs that is only causing problems with citizen and LE relations.

Shooting at targets of pregnant women and little kids, they should to be ashamed!

I would argue, trust of LEO's has diminished at least in part to the increase in media coverage and people's access to it. I've spoken to several generations of LEO's and it's my opinion, based on the stories that I've heard, is that LEO's are better in some ways than they used to be. The problem, if you choose to call it that, is all negative actions are covered on multiple fronts. 20, 30 years ago, if an officer screwed up and killed someone, it made the local newspaper and maybe back page on a national newspaper. Today, five minutes after a use of force situation involving law enforcement, there are six camera phone videos on YouTube, three news stories on seven different websites, all allowing commentary by the general public. The level of corruption that exists today is minimal compared to a few decades ago.

There are bad things that happen today. Officers are not perfect, by any means. There are bad cops who have no business being cops. No argument. But there are a lot of good officers as well. I do not argue that only non-LEO's are causing the issues. I suppose you seem to think I fall on the side of the LEO all the time. I think a lot of people on this site, you included FOF, fall on the exact opposite, always blaming LEO's.

The truth is, it lies somewhere in between. In order to see the changes that I think we could agree on, both sides are going to need to change. LEO's have a lot of image rehab to do. Specifically, good officers need to stand up to the bad eggs. On the other side, people need to acknowledge that these changes won't happen overnight. They need to be supportive of these changes. The honest truth is, the majority of people (which you have made the point of saying is all LEO's are, just people) want it acknowledged when they do things well, rather than just pounded when mistakes are made. Just like the firearms lifestyle.

Do we only like to see when a woman drops her derringer in McDonalds and gut shoots her husband? Or the guy who buys a gun at Fred Meyers, takes it out to his truck, tries to load it and shoots himself? How about the guy who is doing holster drills with a loaded gun and kills a 9-year old girl? Or do we also want to see the story of the person who uses their firearm to successfully defend themselves and their family from someone bent on doing harm.

There are going to be things that people do that LEO's don't always like that they need to learn to live with. On the other side, LEO's have things they do that non-LEO's aren't going to like. I don't know whether this is one of those times or not. I would hope ANY reasonable person, LEO or not, would take pause before shooting anyone (a pregnant woman and child included), but if they are a threat, they are a threat, regardless of gender or age (within reason).

I don't always agree with you FOF, and you don't always agree with me. But at least we can debate in a reasonable manner...