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Five Day Waiting Period? Yeah, sure.

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by RWeaver, Mar 14, 2012.

  1. RWeaver

    RWeaver Everett, WA Member

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    Hey, everyone. I'm new to this forum and have a somewhat annoying experience to share. Just thought I'd vent a bit and see what others had to say.

    So, on Thursday, March 1st, I ordered a SIG P2022 from a site called Top Gun Supply. I looked around at nearby FFLs and decided on a pawn shop by the name of Sound Loan here in Everett. Called and made the arrangements, the gun was shipped out on Friday, and on Monday I got a call saying it had arrived at the shop. I went in and filled out my paperwork, paid the transfer fee, etc. The guy at the shop told me it usually takes about a week, that the Everett PD is usually pretty quick but that, as of recently, they're now required to send part of the paperwork out to be done in Olympia, and that that has slowed things down a bit. This was in the afternoon on Monday, March 5th, so he said the paperwork would go out in the mail the next day (Tuesday, March 6th).

    Now, I've read the WA handgun laws, so I knew that LLE has five business days to either issue a hold or a deny, and if they don't do it within those five days, the gun gets released to the purchaser. So, figuring the paperwork goes out on Tuesday, should arrive at the PD on Wednesday, that puts the five day mark at Wednesday, March 14th... which is today. Well, I called the guy yesterday just to check on things, and he said he hadn't heard anything. Just to be sure, I ran the whole "five days" scenario by him. He proceeded to tell me that, no, that was not correct, and that, pretty much, they could take as long as they wanted and we just had to wait.

    So, I hung up and called the WA Department of Licensing and talked to a lady who confirmed that, no, I was right, they have five days, etc. So, I called the guy back and told him (politely), he said he'd call and leave a message at the PD and ask about clarifying the rules. Well, I called him today and he told me that, because the PD somehow didn't get the paperwork until Thursday, March 8th, my five days wouldn't be up until tomorrow, but that it sounded like it might not matter because, due to this whole Olympia red tape deal, the PD is moving towards just putting blanket holds on ALL applications that come in.

    Long story short, I bought a handgun two weeks ago and now have pretty much no idea when I'll be able to pick it up. I'm not outraged or anything, but it's just starting to annoy me a bit...

    Thoughts?
     
  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Who are you mad at? The dealer? The local Police? the Post office? the State? The laws" the?
     
  3. Mr. Ben

    Mr. Ben Snohomish Co. Active Member

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    Get a CPL, takes about 12 days through everett PD. Then you are a lot less likely to have to go through the waiting period.
     
    mjbskwim and (deleted member) like this.
  4. sasquatch

    sasquatch Everett, WA Active Member

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    Actually, the CPL you're referencing is issued through the Snohomish County Sheriff's Office, not the Everett PD:

    SCSO

    It says on the web site that it takes 30 days, but usually it takes less. The process is relatively painless, and it took about 30 minutes in my case.
     
  5. Mr. Ben

    Mr. Ben Snohomish Co. Active Member

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    My CPL and my wife's CPL were both issued through the Everett PD.
    As stated on my CPL "ISSUING AGENCY EVERETT POLICE DEPARTMENT"

    It's stated clearly in that link you provided

    The thread starter's profile indicates that he or she lives in Everett, Everett PD is the place to go for a CPL :thumbup:

    http://www.ci.everett.wa.us/default.aspx?ID=966
     
  6. RWeaver

    RWeaver Everett, WA Member

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    I guess if I had to choose, I'd say I was mad at the politicians in Olympia for deciding that the Everett PD could no longer handle the process. But really I'm just annoyed at the situation, not at any person in particular.

    Btw, I forgot to mention that I did apply for my CPL, at the Everett PD, about a week before I bought the gun. Still, waiting for it to come in the mail.
     
  7. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Actually it depends on if you are in the "city" or "county",as to who issues your permit.

    Apparently the county needs to check with the state because there isn't a mental eval check that everyone is connected to.So in case you were adjudicated insane,or not guilty by reason of insanity,blah,blah,blah,the sate has access to those records but not the counties.

    As explained to me by a FFL And if you just go get your CCL then this isn't a problem. (you have a pulse? You get the permit)
     
  8. RWeaver

    RWeaver Everett, WA Member

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    By the way, this is nothing against Sound Loan; aside from not knowing about the five days rule and all that, which I thought was a little odd, the guy's been helpful and upfront about everything.
     
  9. RWeaver

    RWeaver Everett, WA Member

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    Just reviewing the relevant laws. Part (1) of RCW 9.41.090 states:

    RCW 9.41.090
    Dealer deliveries regulated — Hold on delivery.


    (1) In addition to the other requirements of this chapter, no dealer may deliver a pistol to the purchaser thereof until:

    (a) The purchaser produces a valid concealed pistol license and the dealer has recorded the purchaser's name, license number, and issuing agency, such record to be made in triplicate and processed as provided in subsection (5) of this section. For purposes of this subsection (1)(a), a "valid concealed pistol license" does not include a temporary emergency license, and does not include any license issued before July 1, 1996, unless the issuing agency conducted a records search for disqualifying crimes under RCW 9.41.070 at the time of issuance;

    (b) The dealer is notified in writing by the chief of police or the sheriff of the jurisdiction in which the purchaser resides that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 and that the application to purchase is approved by the chief of police or sheriff; or

    (c) Five business days, meaning days on which state offices are open, have elapsed from the time of receipt of the application for the purchase thereof as provided herein by the chief of police or sheriff designated in subsection (5) of this section, and, when delivered, the pistol shall be securely wrapped and shall be unloaded. However, if the purchaser does not have a valid permanent Washington driver's license or state identification card or has not been a resident of the state for the previous consecutive ninety days, the waiting period under this subsection (1)(c) shall be up to sixty days.

    (2)(a) Except as provided in (b) of this subsection, in determining whether the purchaser meets the requirements of RCW 9.41.040, the chief of police or sheriff, or the designee of either, shall check with the national crime information center, the Washington state patrol electronic database, the department of social and health services electronic database, and with other agencies or resources as appropriate, to determine whether the applicant is ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm.

    (b) Once the system is established, a dealer shall use the state system and national instant criminal background check system, provided for by the Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act (18 U.S.C. Sec. 921 et seq.), to make criminal background checks of applicants to purchase firearms. However, a chief of police or sheriff, or a designee of either, shall continue to check the department of social and health services' electronic database and with other agencies or resources as appropriate, to determine whether applicants are ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm.

    (3) In any case under subsection (1)(c) of this section where the applicant has an outstanding warrant for his or her arrest from any court of competent jurisdiction for a felony or misdemeanor, the dealer shall hold the delivery of the pistol until the warrant for arrest is served and satisfied by appropriate court appearance. The local jurisdiction for purposes of the sale shall confirm the existence of outstanding warrants within seventy-two hours after notification of the application to purchase a pistol is received. The local jurisdiction shall also immediately confirm the satisfaction of the warrant on request of the dealer so that the hold may be released if the warrant was for an offense other than an offense making a person ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a pistol.

    (4) In any case where the chief or sheriff of the local jurisdiction has reasonable grounds based on the following circumstances: (a) Open criminal charges, (b) pending criminal proceedings, (c) pending commitment proceedings, (d) an outstanding warrant for an offense making a person ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a pistol, or (e) an arrest for an offense making a person ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a pistol, if the records of disposition have not yet been reported or entered sufficiently to determine eligibility to purchase a pistol, the local jurisdiction may hold the sale and delivery of the pistol beyond five days up to thirty days in order to confirm existing records in this state or elsewhere. After thirty days, the hold will be lifted unless an extension of the thirty days is approved by a local district court or municipal court for good cause shown. A dealer shall be notified of each hold placed on the sale by local law enforcement and of any application to the court for additional hold period to confirm records or confirm the identity of the applicant.

    (5) At the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol, the purchaser shall sign in triplicate and deliver to the dealer an application containing his or her full name, residential address, date and place of birth, race, and gender; the date and hour of the application; the applicant's driver's license number or state identification card number; a description of the pistol including the make, model, caliber and manufacturer's number if available at the time of applying for the purchase of a pistol. If the manufacturer's number is not available, the application may be processed, but delivery of the pistol to the purchaser may not occur unless the manufacturer's number is recorded on the application by the dealer and transmitted to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county in which the purchaser resides; and a statement that the purchaser is eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040.

    The application shall contain a warning substantially as follows:


    CAUTION: Although state and local laws do not differ, federal law and state law on the possession of firearms differ. If you are prohibited by federal law from possessing a firearm, you may be prosecuted in federal court. State permission to purchase a firearm is not a defense to a federal prosecution.



    The purchaser shall be given a copy of the department of fish and wildlife pamphlet on the legal limits of the use of firearms, firearms safety, and the fact that local laws and ordinances on firearms are preempted by state law and must be consistent with state law.

    The dealer shall, by the end of the business day, sign and attach his or her address and deliver a copy of the application and such other documentation as required under subsection (1) of this section to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of which the purchaser is a resident. The triplicate shall be retained by the dealer for six years. The dealer shall deliver the pistol to the purchaser following the period of time specified in this section unless the dealer is notified of an investigative hold under subsection (4) of this section in writing by the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county, whichever is applicable, denying the purchaser's application to purchase and the grounds thereof. The application shall not be denied unless the purchaser is not eligible to possess a pistol under RCW 9.41.040 or 9.41.045, or federal law.

    The chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county shall retain or destroy applications to purchase a pistol in accordance with the requirements of 18 U.S.C. Sec. 922.

    (6) A person who knowingly makes a false statement regarding identity or eligibility requirements on the application to purchase a pistol is guilty of false swearing under RCW 9A.72.040.

    (7) This section does not apply to sales to licensed dealers for resale or to the sale of antique firearms.


    Now, what I'm getting from this is that a hold can only be placed in the circumstances outlined in part (4). That is to say, if I'm not under open criminal charges, no warrant out for my arrest, etc, then a decision must be handed down within five business days and, if it isn't, then I'm free to go pick up my gun. Am I reading that right?

    Btw, I know it may seem like I'm being a bit of a malcontent here, but I'm really just excited about getting my first handgun and bored at the moment. Also, I enjoy interpreting these kinds of things. :laugh:
     
  10. Misterbill

    Misterbill Yakima County, Washington New Member

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    You went through a Poopy shop.

    Any FFL I know would have already handed you your gun.

    THAT is the problem, not the government. And FWIW, $55.25 and 15 minutes would have saved you all this aggravation. Hope you're happy to save the money and still not be able to CCW.