First thread! How about essential defensive pistol functions?

[bradsteen]

There is no such thing as one ideal defensive handgun to rule them all because the intended purpose and personal preference dictate the required specs. Duty weapons or weapons that will not be concealed are often large-framed with the highest capacity possible. Weapons that will be concealed are generally a tradeoff between concealability (size, thickness), firepower (caliber, capacity), and ease of use (recoil management, trigger pull, manipulation, etc). It's about having the right tool for the mission at hand; none do everything well, so the ideal tool will vary.

Manual safeties are a double-edged sword. If carrying with the safety on, under stress the user may fail to disengage it. One must train to make the safety lever actuation part of the draw, which can be difficult depending on its location (frame-mounted safeties may be easier to switch during a draw than a slide-mounted safety). Either way, in a high-stress situation you want to have to rely on the least amount of fine motor skills possible.

I also don't see a value to the "render the gun safe if law enforcement asks you to drop it" requirement. If a cop wants you to drop the gun, the last thing they want is you continuing to manipulate it. Pistols are generally drop-safe, so don't worry about dropping it... unless it's a Sig

 

[RedRover]

There are many essentials for a defensive pistol, among them, the reliable ability to NOT shoot, as well as absolute reliability TO shoot. A successful defensive handgun engagement may resolve without a shot fired, but there will be some extremely high stress gun handling, even if just for reholstering. So, to that point, I will cheerfully assert that an ideal defensive handgun will have:
- An initial trigger pull that mitigates the risk of a less-than-deliberate first shot.
- Second strike capability. Pull the trigger again for another primer strike.
- Completely ambidextrous controls. You may not have the luxury of using your dominant hand, or both hands.
- A hammer or striker control plate to prevent ND while reholstering.
- A decocking mechanism to revert to a deliberate trigger pull, which cannot be left in a no-fire "safe" mode; i.e., spring return to fire mode after decocking.
- If continuity of fire is expected after an initial shot volley, an easily loaded mag well. Not applicable for those relying solely on the rounds in the gun, with no other mags on person, or most revolver users.
- For "always cocked" guns (striker fired), a manual safety in event the gun must be off your person and control to comply with safety or control commands ("Police, drop your gun!"), or transferred to another person in crisis conditions.

My review of available options reduces the choices to two current models suitable for CCW, and although reasonably light, neither of them are compact. That's based on the requirement for completely ambidextrous controls; trigger, mag release, slide stop, safety/decocker, and hammer or striker control plate, and one-hand second strike capability.

Anticipating two common arguments:

If your finger is your safety, you're not safe. Proven by studies I'm happy to cite.

Second strike is not mandated in order to ignite a theoretical stubborn primer, agreeably so rare in factory ammo that it's not an eventuality that merits obsessive training. But the reality is that a primer struck once unsuccessfully in a defensive engagement will be overwhelmingly likely to ignite on a second strike, because the issue was never the primer, it was the failure to fully headspace or go into battery due to interference in cycling, with some of the energy intended for ignition instead absorbed by round motion relative to the chamber. This absorption itself tends to ready the round for a successful second strike. This phenomenon often occurs due to unusual movement or orientation of the firing hand, or interference with slide motion in grappling or close quarters. Not range conditions, gunfight conditions.

Fair warning: I don't like single action or striker fired guns for defensive emergency use. I do appreciate them for other purposes and reasons.

Well, this should set the fur a flyin'. Flame on!

I disagree.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

I've owned and practiced with lots of different "defensive pistols"....pretty sure none of them met the OP's criteria.

At one time , long ago , the only large bore handgun I owned was a copy of a Colt 1860 Army...
That cap and ball revolver served in many roles for me...to include being my "house gun".
It worked well for me
Granted ...Even a "long time ago" , I owned , enjoyed and shot muzzle loaders more than other firearms....
I knew that revolver well...I shot it often...and understood it and my limitations with it.

So while I would not suggest that a new gun owner use a Colt 1860 Army revolver as a "defensive pistol" nowadays....
My example is posted to show that :

Use what firearm you have....
Learn to use whatever firearm you have well...
Don't roll over and wait to die , because the firearm you have , ain't one someone's approved list....
Andy

 

[Yarome]

I can appreciate a newer gun owner taking the time to educate themselves, but there is such a thing as going entirely too deep down the rabbit hole... to detrimental effect. I can say none of my EDC's or field weapons would fit even half of those criteria... on purpose!

I'll just echo others... KISS... and there is no substitute for ongoing training on your chosen platform. Both in proficiency and safety. It doesn't matter how many "features" your firearm has if you're not comfortable with it's operation to the point that it becomes simply an extension of your own hand.

Also to consider that "features" equates to complexity of function. Each adding in points of potential failure. Either mechanically, or human error in a high stress situation.

Has anyone mentioned "KISS", yet??

 

[NeoBlackdog]

I have a feelin' the OP and I are probably not gonna be friends.

Glock on.

 

[solv3nt]

I have a feelin' the OP and I are probably not gonna be friends.

Glock on.

 

[osprey]

Welcome to the forum! I am glad you have put some thought into what you will carry but what works for you probably won't work for everybody. Some of your ideas have merit but as with everything there will alway have to be some compromise. Most of these compromises can be mitigated with training. I have several friends who are high on ambi controls on their defensive pistol but when asked, they admit to never even attempting to shoot weak handed. I find I can operate my non ambi carry pistol ok with my weak hand. It is putting shots on target weak handed I need the most practice with. All my families defensive pistols are striker fired with no manual safeties. This makes things about as simple as it can be for my family. If for some reason my wife had to use my pistol she would have no problems as it works the same as her's.

 

[Yarome]

Awww... Don't even sweat it for one second!!








(Your EDC choices have nothing to do with why people don't like you...)

 

[Apocalypso]

Well, that was mighty productive! ("This online discussion really changed my mind," said No One Ever. )

I encourage armed defenders to examine the many assumptions usually involved in any idealized or imagined gunfight. Reality often involves factors that some rarely consider or practice for, including beginning the fight already injured, multiple assailants, struggling to retain or control your gun or an opponent's weapon, unclear foes vs friendlies, and the chaos of actual close quarters fighting, usually at grappling or near grappling distances.

I shoot over 10,000 rounds a year, appreciate all types of guns, and ventured my views of optimal defensive handgun criteria based on lessons hard-learned in 4 decades of armed public safety and LE firearm instruction, homicide investigation, forensic death investigation, and analyses of actual handgun engagements.

Cheers, G

 

[BPS2271]

Well, that was mighty productive! ("This online discussion really changed my mind," said No One Ever. )

I encourage armed defenders to examine the many assumptions usually involved in any idealized or imagined gunfight. Reality often involves factors that some rarely consider or practice for, including beginning the fight already injured, multiple assailants, struggling to retain or control your gun or an opponent's weapon, unclear foes vs friendlies, and the chaos of actual close quarters fighting, usually at grappling or near grappling distances.

I shoot over 10,000 rounds a year, appreciate all types of guns, and ventured my views of optimal defensive handgun criteria based on lessons hard-learned in 4 decades of armed public safety and LE firearm instruction, homicide investigation, forensic death investigation, and analyses of actual handgun engagements.

Cheers, G

The arrogance and presumption here is astounding.

 

[Andy54Hawken]

@Apocalypso

Just something to consider here....

Some folks here , may have the same or more experience as you...
Or conversely little to none...
And...
Have come to a different viewpoint or way of doing things.
Which doesn't make anyone wrong...it just makes 'em different.

Another thing to consider here is...

When working with text only communication , much is lost or not transferred...things like inflection and tone...
So...
You can come across very different then you intend to.

However...
If what you wanted ,was to basically tell us that you are right...and everyone else here is wrong...
Congratulations ...'cause that is how your OP and reply reads.
Is that what you intended to read like...?

Oh...one last thing to consider...

Life rarely plays by your rules , wants , needs or fits your criteria....
So while having a set of rules , needs , wants , criteria , etc ...is helpful and even useful...
It is wise to to also not be married to the above ( so to speak)....being of a flexible mindset is a must.
Andy

 

[Nosferatu]

Well, that was mighty productive! ("This online discussion really changed my mind," said No One Ever. )

I encourage armed defenders to examine the many assumptions usually involved in any idealized or imagined gunfight. Reality often involves factors that some rarely consider or practice for, including beginning the fight already injured, multiple assailants, struggling to retain or control your gun or an opponent's weapon, unclear foes vs friendlies, and the chaos of actual close quarters fighting, usually at grappling or near grappling distances.

I shoot over 10,000 rounds a year, appreciate all types of guns, and ventured my views of optimal defensive handgun criteria based on lessons hard-learned in 4 decades of armed public safety and LE firearm instruction, homicide investigation, forensic death investigation, and analyses of actual handgun engagements.

Cheers, G

Since you have that mastered, can I suggest this book to be the beginning to your next step in personal growth:

Amazon.com

 

[IndyPrepper]

They may be ugly to some, but they work when it counts.

 

[Certaindeaf]

The arrogance and presumption here is astounding.

Yea, don't go short shrifting, man!


Oof

 

[titsonritz]

The arrogance and presumption here is astounding.

Must be buddies of that berms guy. Sounds like he is stuck in the '80s with the "Wonder nine" craze.

 

[Certaindeaf]

Since you have that mastered, can I suggest this book to be the beginning to your next step in personal growth:

Amazon.com

Veinglorious

Lol

 

[MTpockets]

I'm covered (lucky you).

I knew all the prominent NWFA'ers were waiting in overwatch with their long guns in the ready.

 

[solv3nt]

The arrogance and presumption here is astounding.

It's semantics.

 

[osprey]

I tell people I know of two solutions to every problem. One is my way and the other is the highway!

 

[Andy54Hawken]

It's semantics.

Well...what if someone was anti-semantic...?
Wait...I already know folks like that .....nevermind...
Andy