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First rifle selection thread

Discussion in 'Rifle Discussion' started by BrotherGlacius, Apr 1, 2015.

  1. BrotherGlacius

    BrotherGlacius Portland Member

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    Hi Everyone,

    So I am just getting into the sport. I found I really like the 200+ yard shooting. 100yrds is fun, but I don't see it as a long term range for me. Therefore, I don't think I should go with a .22 as my first rifle. I think I would get bored with it pretty quickly.

    To that end, I think I should probably start out with a .223 or possible a 5.56 so that I can fire either (though I suppose a .223 wylde would work as well).

    These don't seem to be very common though in a simple bolt action. I really want to keep with bolt actions just as a personal preference. Plus I hope that it will slow down my shooting and save me some money in the long run. So I really do want a gun that will last me for a good long while.

    My ultimate goal is to get some WWII rifles as my main guns. But those are just going to have to get put on hold until I am more familiar and schooled with rifle care.

    So, suggestions?
     
    Tacticool22 likes this.
  2. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Ruger makes a few
     
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  3. ZA_Survivalist

    ZA_Survivalist Oregon AK's all day.

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    Mossberg MVP 5.56, then if you decide to get an AR you have a mag compatible pair.

    Im purchasing (one of these days) both the .308 and 5.56 MVP rifles. Why? Because Im very invested in the AR15 and M1A rifles.. If they made a 7.62x39 AK mag version Id be all over it as well.
     
    Tacticool22 likes this.
  4. donovan

    donovan Eugene, OR Member

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    Both Savage and Ruger have inexpensive entry rifle packages if you're looking for a .223 bolt gun. The Savage Axis II XP can be had for sub $400 with a Weaver 3-9x40 scope included. The Ruger American can be had in .223 with a Redfield 3-9x40 scope for closer to $500. Those options are just about as good as any other out of the box bolt action in the sub $1000 range. By going inexpensive you'll be able to get a good feel for the things you like and don't like for when you decide to upgrade. Going that route allows you to get a good feel for it without breaking the bank. You'll have more money for ammo to train with that way too.

    And as a side note, those models come in other calibers too if you decide against .223.
     
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  5. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts United States Well-Known Member

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    Remember to check twist rates on your 223 bolt gun. They aren't as universal on a bolt rifle as they are with an AR. Bolt action 223s can come in 14, 12, 10, 9 and 8 twist. The slower twist rates are kind of old school. They suit the 45 to 55 gr bullets that were the rule in the past (still common amongst varmint shooters). No biggie if this is what you want.

    However, a 8 or even 9 twist let's you use bullets up to 75grs and makes your 223 act like a grown rifle out past 400 yards where 50gr bullets have the ballistics of a ping-pong ball.
     
  6. BrotherGlacius

    BrotherGlacius Portland Member

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    Okay, so there are two things I know nothing about, twist and grain. I get that grain is the amount of gunpowder in the cartridge, but other than changing the velocity of the round, not sure what it impacts. And the twist is probably the rifling of the barrel. Does a larger number cause a greater spin and thus further distance? Probably effects trajectory?
     
  7. ron

    ron Vancouver, Washington Silver Supporter Silver Supporter

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    Considering a Ruger or Savage bolt gun is good advice. For the money they are great values.
    I would advise you to not rule out the AR platform. Maybe you will become bored with
    a bolt gun too? You can shoot it one round at a time single loading it. I single load the
    AR shooting it off the bench.
    The plusses of the AR are many. You can change from a heavy barrel scoped target rifle
    to lightweight carbine buy changing uppers. No stock bedding to redo. Rebarreling is easy.
    Infinite number of configurations/options readily available. An AR with a good barrel can
    shoot as good as any bolt gun. The AR is by far the most used rifle in High Power rifle
    competitions.
    http://www.ossa.org/highpower.html
    http://www.ossa.org/uploads/2/5/3/2/25326702/2015_highpower_schedule.pdf
     
  8. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    I highly recommend the Mossberg MVP in the varmint version for 200 yard target shooting. It uses AR-15 magazines (My son has found the 10 rd mags work excellent). Its a very well designed rifle that as I said shares magazines with the AR-15 platform.

    As to twist and grains. In the context it was mentioned the grains refers to the weight of the bullet. As a general rule to heavier a bullet is the longer it is and the slower the twist of the rifling is required to properly stabilize it in flight. You can find excellent write up on this by searching for "Rifling Twist" with google.

    The Rugar and Savage rifles are also very good rifles. They use either a box magazine (contained in the stock and not removable or a proprietary magazine which will be expensive and normally not more then 5 rds)

    Your not there yet but my son has had very good results using a Mueller 4.5-14X APT scope on his Mossberg MVP they are very reasonably priced for what your getting.
     
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  9. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Common misconception, grain is usually referring to the weight of the bullet (ie .22lr is about 40g, and .45acp is about 230g).

    Twist rate is a bit more tricky, it is not a simple more twist gives more distance - it has to do with the length of your barrel and the distances you want to shoot (but someone more familiar with it should explain it instead of myself).
     
  10. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    Buy the WWII rifle that you want, M1 or 1903a3, etc, and go to town.
     
    ron likes this.
  11. edslhead

    edslhead Vanc Gold Supporter Gold Supporter Silver Supporter Bronze Supporter

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  12. No_Regerts

    No_Regerts United States Well-Known Member

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    To simplify bullet weight and twist rate:

    Bullet weight, considering that the bullet is lead-core with a copper jacket resulting in similar density, results in a longer bullet as the weight increases (you know, because it can't get fatter). With bullet weight resulting in longer length, the bullet needs to be spun faster to toss a "spiral". A 1 in 8 twist means 1 full revolution in 8 inches of barrel. A 1 in 14 means it takes 14 inches to make that revolution. When you don't spin a bullet fast enough for its length, you throw a wobbly and unstable bullet meaning less accuracy.

    Then why use heavier bullets? They are more aerodynamic and retain more energy downrange. They keep their speed over a longer distance.
     
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  13. deshoots

    deshoots central oregon Member

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    That exactly. I just ordered my 1st CMP M1. Great way to go if your not schooled enough to buy on the open market. I absolutely love it. My favorite by far. Get one now as they are not making them anymore, and CMP will run out sooner than later. Pm me if you need help with the cmp process its very easy.
     
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  14. solv3nt

    solv3nt Portland Well-Known Member

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    I went through a lot of different rifles before I ended up with my Winchester 70, but the process sure was fun shooting different guns. Unless you like the buying and selling, which is about to come to a screeching halt with SB941, buy what you want and don't look back.
     
  15. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    lots and lots of choices out there, I can't make up my mind between military surplus and commercial. I've been shooting for a very long time and find the milsurp guns offer more in history and "teaching moments", but, modern commercial rifles satisfy the "gotta have new" desires I have. So I have both.

    If you are leaning towards military surplus guns, or even old commercial, get an 03 ffl (often refered to as a curio and relic or a collectors license). It will allow you to buy qualified firearms direct from out of state distributors and importers, probably saving you a bit of money. First time the brown truck delivered guns to my door felt weird, I got over it. No sales tax, no transfer fees.

    594 ruined it for me up here in WA (my 03 isn't good anymore), I hope 941 doesn't do the same to you folks down there
     
  16. Sgt Nambu

    Sgt Nambu Oregon Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Dont worry about careing for a military rifle. They are made to be extremely reliable, to last and so that Joe Cityboy can operate and care for one with minimal instruction.
    Basic firearm maintenance is not difficult and uTube, for instance, is full of helpful instruction videos. Just take them with a grain of salt. If everyone does something the same way, probably correct. Questions, ask here!:)
     
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  17. RicInOR

    RicInOR Washington County Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    @BrotherGlacius

    If you have not gone, spend a weekend at an Appleseed event. User Kimber Custom posts about these events, usually in the Project Appleseed forum, but also in Preparedness & Survival and Strategies, Tactics, & Training

    Patriots Day Weekend Appleseed Event:
    https://www.northwestfirearms.com/posts/1246933/


    Shoot what you have. Keep a log. You'll learn much more by doing.

    There are military rifles matches around the area - and posted here. Until you get one, volunteer to help out, or there may be rifles available on loan.
    This is from a couple years back:
    https://www.northwestfirearms.com/threads/tcgc-vintage-military-rifle-matches.131528/#post-1089927

    http://www.tcgc.org/activities/vintage-military-riflepistol/
    http://www.douglasridge.org/cmp.html




    As a suggestion: Do some reading on F-Class. That is long range precision shooting.


    One last thought - where are you going to shoot? Check their rules. You wouldn't want to invest in some caliber your local range would not allow.
     
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2015
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  18. P7id10T

    P7id10T Cedar Hills Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    You said 223, but I'd go with a 308, 243 or 7mm-08 as my first gun.
    My first was a .22, followed shortly by a 270 Win, and then the floodgates opened.

    You live in PDX. Lots of good gun shops around. I recommend you get your first gun from one. Some may be pricier, but if you're going to get into WWII rifles, you will want a business relationship with a gunsmith whom you trust. Also, depending on your frame size, you definitely want a rifle that fits you, and a good rifleman/gunsmith should be able to assess that.

    I've liked every one I've stepped into around here. For starters, you may want to try Keith's in Gresham. I stop in at Al's in Verboort every time I pass through. Good guys there.

    Plus, it certainly helps to shoulder many different brands of rifle. You'll find one that "feels right".
    To wit: my 270 didn't fit me (too small of a stock), and I developed all kinds of bad shooting habits from that.
     
  19. BrotherGlacius

    BrotherGlacius Portland Member

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    Thanks for clearing up my misconceptions. That helps a lot. Also, thanks for not making me feel like an idiot. :)
     
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  20. Joe13

    Joe13 NW of Vancouver Opinionated & Blunt Bronze Supporter 2015 Volunteer 2016 Volunteer

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    Ruger gunsight scout.

    Mag fed bolt action.
    Scout or regular scope mounts
    Ghost ring iron sights standard
    Comes in .308 & 5.56
    It's great for bush hunting out to 500+ yard shots depending on your optic choices.

    It'll do plinking, home defense, hunting (if your in WA, only the .308 could be hunted with).

    .308 surplus military rounds are cheaper then factory 5.56 rounds.

    If I had to get rid of all of my other long guns, the RGS would be the rifle I would keep. (They are going to run you $700-$900 depending on where you get it).