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Firing a .45 while holding slide/barrel

Discussion in 'Education & Training' started by jawbone, Nov 9, 2012.

  1. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    I made this video while I was evaluating a Krav Maga disarming technique (Disarming a pistol from the front). The defense involves grabbing the barrel as the first step (that's an extremely oversimplified statement). I wanted empirical evidence that an average strength grip would be able to impede the cycling of the action of a .45 caliber. The pistol is a Wilson Combat.

    [video=youtube;zsn-Tg7cEps]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zsn-Tg7cEps&feature=youtu.be[/video]
     
  2. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    The technique involves first removing yourself from the line of fire with a diagonal step forward to the side of the threatening hand (in Krav terminology this would be the "dead side"). No screwing around-- you have to gain control of the weapon. It's here that the gun has the highest probability of discharge.

    Redirect the weapon. Quickly follow with a strong counterattack to the face (resetting the neural processes). Pin the gun to the waist. With the free hand, cover the hammer with an underhand grip. Execute a quick "break and take". Then tap and rack, and you're home.

    @Blitzkrieg: When we train to disarm a threat from a forward acute angle (relative to our line), we use the overhand grip/wrist leverage technique as well.


    The point of this was to just give a progressive breakdown. Obviously, this was in no way meant to teach the technique.
     
  3. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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  4. MarkAd

    MarkAd Port Orchard Well-Known Member

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    All you have to do is get through the hail of bullets and pass my knife.
     
  5. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    I'll post it wherever it belongs. I just joined this forum yesterday so I'm still trying to get acclimated to the way the mods run things.
     
  6. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    The method you speak of has been in the training circles for many years, its called "Brace contact"

    Its used during CQB situations where you may be fighting over the gun.

    You grab the front of the pistol with an overhand hold, place the muzzle against the suspect, and fire the round.
    This will induce a malfunction, but can easily be rectified with a tap-rack drill, while disengaging from the suspect if possible.
     
  7. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Gee's I watched videos of Convicts in the California Penal System practicing how to disable a Beretta 92 right after the US Military and a bunch of Police agencies adopted the pistol in what 1985 the videos were maybe summer of 86. Showed them standing in an excersize area showing each other how to remove the slide by reaching over it and hitting the slide release.

    I think I learned in Aikido class in 1976-77 at college how to disarm someone with either a sword or a pistol.

    Nothing new. But then there are new people so I guess a you tube is the way to go now.

    Hopefully Mr bad guy won't have a DA revolver cause your not going to be able to hold the thing while your plam is on fire and I doubt you could stop the cylinder from rotating after having the gap blast hit you in the palm.






    Aikido
     
  8. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    The hammer would have to be cocked back already. The cylinder spins as the trigger is pulled, locking the hammer into place. So the bullet that is fired is the "next one" in line.

    If the hammer was already cocked back though, and it was able to fire, then yeah I agree with you.
     
  9. Swedish K

    Swedish K SW Washington Moderator Staff Member

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    suckers bet to let someone advance and close the gap regardless of pistol type. No reason to let someone come disarm you.
     
  10. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Actually a simple twist of the wrist against the hold would allow enough slack to pull the trigger on my revolvers.
     
  11. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    That's true. We compensate for this. In Krav there is a principal known as simultaneous counterattack. The basic idea is to counterattack as close to simultaneous with the defense as is humanly possible given the situation. An interesting thing about the brain: when someone gets punched in the face the thought process is disrupted momentarily. It's kinda like neural white noise. The brain physically can't generate the necessary electrical signals to send to your muscles to tell them "hey, twist the wrist". It's in this reset period that you initiate the disarming technique.

    Once I start to move, it takes under a second to strike an attacker in the face. You'd be surprised how long a second is when measured relative to human speed.
     
    FourTeeFive and (deleted member) like this.
  12. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    Amen to that. Hopefully I've already inserted 460 grains of lead into anybody who would attempt to disarm me.
     
  13. Deacon

    Deacon Salem, Oregon Member

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    Unless of course the gun was hammerless.
     
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  14. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Thats why if you were attaching me I'd shoot your silly butt at about 10 ft. I also don't want a bunch of goo all over me. Since the only possible reason in the State of Oregon for me to even be pointing a firearm at you is for self defense of myself or another. YOU must be the attacker. In which case You would find out what kind of experiance I have.
     
  15. coop44

    coop44 Tacoma ,WA Well-Known Member

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    If I were "attaching" you I would be a lot closer than ten feet. You would have to buy me dinner first. :bluelaugh:

    I thought you were in it for the "goo".:bluelaugh:

    I wonder what Kind of experience you are looking for.:bluelaugh:

    Just kidding mark, coudn't help myself
     
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  16. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    It is clear that my post was written from a defender's point of view, not an attacker's.
     
  17. fry

    fry pacific north west Active Member

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    dont try this at home. this video was made by "Professionals" who appearantly are so good at what they do they dont need to wear safety glasses. oopsies.

    it was a cool video though..... aside from the lack of saftey equipment and statement of professionalism.
     
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  18. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    This post was written by someone who is apparently so good at what he does he doesn't need to actually watch the video in order to comment on it. Oopsies.

    It was a cool post though..... aside from the lack of observation that both participants in the video are wearing glasses outfitted with impact-resistant lenses.
     
  19. fry

    fry pacific north west Active Member

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    maybe i should have my eyes checked. i watched the video three times wondering why the guy in the blue shirt wasnt wearing safety glasses.
     
  20. jawbone

    jawbone Western Washington Member

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    Sorry for the video quality. The guy in blue is wearing wire rim glasses; he always wears them because he can't see if he doesn't.

    Look for the tell-tale sign of the bridge-piece spanning his nose.