fireformed vs virgin brass

[Koda]

There are many variables in play here.

It will always make a difference, virgin vs fireformed. However, the distance you shoot is part of the equation also. Environmenntal's during TOF affect POI.

I have found that Nosler brass is the best brass, right out of the box - much better virgin tolerances than say, Lapua.

Also, F1 - F2 - F3 - etc. makes a difference. Neck concentricity might change or stretch.

New vs old rifle chamber, degree of throat erosion, preferred trim length, projectile weight & ogive, BC.

We can split hair all day here.

if it will always make a difference then I probably will buy a supply of cheap bullets just for fireforming.

The new virgin brass Im using in both calibers Im reloading for is Nosler, so... good to know its consistent.

 

[Xmark1]

if it will always make a difference then I probably will buy a supply of cheap bullets just for fireforming.

The new virgin brass Im using in both calibers Im reloading for is Nosler, so... good to know its consistent.

Projectiles play many different rolls also. It depends on your target/mission objectives.

If you are shooting short distances, less than ~200 yards then it's good to know flat base stabilize faster than boat tail. (Cheaper also)

Boat tail work better at long range.

Compound ogive boat tail work best at very long range.

Example: PPU 308 become unstable @ ~ 250 yards

Marginal gains can be achieved with fireformed brass. But in my personal experience - Projectile selection affects POI outcomes to a much higher degree, especially past 250 yards. Less than 200 yards, most any projectile is adequate, given you have done load development to match the Projectile weight, MV & BC to your rifles twist.

My $0.02

P.S. I have reloaded Nosler brass up to 25 times. No other brass comes close to that number. In my experience.

 

[P7M13]

Over on LRH, a member named Entoptics did an extensive statistical study on fireforming cases, and the effect on velocity and accuracy.
My recollection is there was very little difference, unless you were shooting for 20x in benchrest....

 

[Koda]

Over on LRH, a member named Entoptics did an extensive statistical study on fireforming cases, and the effect on velocity and accuracy.
My recollection is there was very little difference, unless you were shooting for 20x in benchrest....

I'll take your word for it, those guys over there at LRH go 20 pages deep in discussion on most any reloading question. Lots of knowledge though if one sifts thru it all.

I got what I needed here, a few nods it does and a few nods it doesnt.... so decided to buy some bulk cheap bullets to fireform. At some point I will load my recipe in new brass and check velocities and see for myself but at my experience level I still have a ways to go to reduce my ES and group size so I probably wouldnt be able to see any difference in using virgin brass at the moment.

 

[P7M13]

What cartridge?
Shoulder bump / neck sizing ( on cases fired in your chamber ) will yield better case life than full length sized ones.
Remember to anneal.
If fireforming to Ackley-ize a case, it typically takes two firings to fully form cases.
If using a savage rifle, many claim significant ES/SD improvement when their firing pin is tuned.

 

[DizzyJ]

What cartridge?
Shoulder bump / neck sizing ( on cases fired in your chamber ) will yield better case life than full length sized ones.
Remember to anneal.
If fireforming to Ackley-ize a case, it typically takes two firings to fully form cases.
If using a savage rifle, many claim significant ES/SD improvement when their firing pin is tuned.

Tell me more about this "firing pin tuning"

 

[Koda]

What cartridge?
Shoulder bump / neck sizing ( on cases fired in your chamber ) will yield better case life than full length sized ones.
Remember to anneal.
If fireforming to Ackley-ize a case, it typically takes two firings to fully form cases.
If using a savage rifle, many claim significant ES/SD improvement when their firing pin is tuned.

Im reloading 223 in my AR to learn reloading while I wait on my hunting rifle in gunsmith limbo to get a new barrel (then I will be "Ackley-izing yup...).

I thought it took a couple firings for any rifle case to truly fireform? Regardless... along the way Ive learned that annealing has greatly improved my shoulder bump consistency so Im just starting to do this every time. Ive loaded another set but this month is booked but Im anxious to see how they run. Im getting faster and more consistent each time I reload.

 

[P7M13]

Tell me more about this "firing pin tuning"

This guy for bolt tuning. You have to send your bolt to him to be faced and have your firing pin bushed.
But, with the bushing system, you can have almost zero force required to close the bolt.

Savage Bolt Lift Kit for all Savages with Single Piece Firing pin 2019+ | eBay

Warning there is afake copy being sold bygorhad and it is not a genuine bolt lift kit. What makes it better and different?. This new kit I made uses a specially modified thrust bearing and a spacer for the BAS screw.

www.ebay.com

 

[Xmark1]

Im reloading 223 in my AR to learn reloading while I wait on my hunting rifle in gunsmith limbo to get a new barrel (then I will be "Ackley-izing yup...).

I thought it took a couple firings for any rifle case to truly fireform? Regardless... along the way Ive learned that annealing has greatly improved my shoulder bump consistency so Im just starting to do this every time. Ive loaded another set but this month is booked but Im anxious to see how they run. Im getting faster and more consistent each time I reload.

Some people say to always full length resize for an AR15 to ensure feed reliability.
I do, and I full length resize using a small base die set.

$0.02

 

[RX-79G]

Some people say to always full length resize for an AR to ensure feed reliability.
I do, and I full length resize using a small base die set.

$0.02

Especially if it isn't a 20 barrel.

 

[Koda]

Some people say to always full length resize for an AR15 to ensure feed reliability.
I do, and I full length resize using a small base die set.

$0.02

yup, at first I was and Ive considered all the reasons, but for my project I want to practice learning to control my shoulder bump precisely and so far I have not had any feed issues due to the closer to chamber sized brass. I havent ran a lot so far but if I have feed issues I will adjust accordingly.

 

[thorborg]

Doing nothing more but FL sizing, and length trimming, I can get minor different speed results from different brands of brass on a Doppler radar. I assume from slight difference of internal volume, possibly brass hardness, and likely wall thickness of brass. Does not address accuracy performance.
So, as to your question, I would say marginally, if sized the same and the same brand as the fireformed brass. Depending on what specs matter to you, I would also add that changes in components usually warrant a separate evaluation.
That opine is because even when I evaluate brass brands separately I usually find them close enough in performance I don't worry about bulk ammo separation from then on, but I'm not a precision target puncher.
I read of ones post for a pat on the back for Norma. It is good brass for sure but comes at a price that's dubiously worth the cost as I have had as many reloads from Privi as I've gotten from the few Norma I've had. Privi is good stuff as brass goes.