Firearms Laws and Questions

[Frog]

It's all pretty simple and straight forward Chalupacabra, but important that you and your friend follow the law's procedure.

First, YOU need to find a FFL that will do transfers from a private seller. I believe Cut Above will, but some will not. Once the FFL is found, you will advise him to expect the package (containing the gun) to arrive, giving them your name, address, etc. and your friends name, address, etc.

Your friend MUST ship the firearm to your FLL via UPS. This provides an official paper trail for your FFL and your friend. The FFL will advise you as to how the package needs to be addressed.

Once the gun arrives at your FFL, you simply fill out the paper work, pass the back round check and take the gun. I think Cut Above charges $ 10 for the BR and $ 20 for the transfer. Oh yell, bring a trigger lock with you, if one isn't supplied with the gun. CA has a funny rule about all guns leaving their store with a lock??

How and when you pay for the gun is up to you and your friend, however I'd do a Lost and/or Stolen back round on the gun. It's free. Just call 503-378-3070 with the Make, Model and Serial Number.

Hope this helps.

Frog.

 

[hermannr]

Ok, thanks for the replies. Now to get real basic, what would be the process for the FFL ship/receive route? 1. I pay him and deal with bill of sale 2. He takes to FFL in WA and arranges shipping to the FFL I designate 3. I notify FFL(I was thinking A Cut Above after reading a previous thread)4. I pay FFL when the gun arrives for BC and Transfer? Is that the right order, or should I notify my FFL first?

Ok, there are two ruites, depends on YOUR FFL....

as previously stated: SOME FFL's will not recieve from a private party, some will.

IF! YOUR FFL will receive from a private party! your friend can ship to directly to YOUR FFL in OR.

IF!!! Your FFL will NOT receive from a NON-FFL, then your friend needs to take the weapon to any FFL in WA and pay them to ship it to YOUR FFL for you.

Remember, receipt only from another FFL is not a federal requirement...it is a FFL private policy.

Your federal forms will be the Bill of sale.

 

[Chalupacabra]

Alright, thanks a lot. I will continue the deal with this info and see if he wants to go ahead with it.

 

[fd15k]

It's all pretty simple and straight forward Chalupacabra, but important that you and your friend follow the law's procedure.

First, YOU need to find a FFL that will do transfers from a private seller. I believe Cut Above will, but some will not. Once the FFL is found, you will advise him to expect the package (containing the gun) to arrive, giving them your name, address, etc. and your friends name, address, etc.

Your friend MUST ship the firearm to your FLL via UPS. This provides an official paper trail for your FFL and your friend. The FFL will advise you as to how the package needs to be addressed.

Once the gun arrives at your FFL, you simply fill out the paper work, pass the back round check and take the gun. I think Cut Above charges $ 10 for the BR and $ 20 for the transfer. Oh yell, bring a trigger lock with you, if one isn't supplied with the gun. CA has a funny rule about all guns leaving their store with a lock??

How and when you pay for the gun is up to you and your friend, however I'd do a Lost and/or Stolen back round on the gun. It's free. Just call 503-378-3070 with the Make, Model and Serial Number.

Hope this helps.

Frog.

It doesn't have to be UPS. If you ship a handgun as a non-FFL you can't ship it via USPS. If you have your FFL ship it for you to another FFL, it can go with USPS. If you ship it yourself, it can go with any common carrier other than USPS.

 

[jsharptooth91]

Hi all, just want to make sure i have this down.
A bud of my whom lives in or wants to buy a hand gun from me. I live in washington.

whats the best way to do the transfer? In oregon or in wa?

I am assuming that i need to ship it to his ffl dealer. Can i ship it directly from me to the ffl, or dose it need to be ffl to ffl?

Thanks in advance.

 

[hermannr]

Hi all, just want to make sure i have this down.
A bud of my whom lives in or wants to buy a hand gun from me. I live in washington.

whats the best way to do the transfer? In oregon or in wa?

I am assuming that i need to ship it to his ffl dealer. Can i ship it directly from me to the ffl, or dose it need to be ffl to ffl?

Thanks in advance.

The transfer has to happen in the purchasers state. If you send the weapon to his FFL or not is up to his FFL. Some FFLs will not accept from a private party...though there is no law against them doing so.

If HIS FFL will accept from private parties, you can ship it. If his FFL will not accept from private parties you will need to have your FFL ship it to his FFL.

 

[jsharptooth91]

Awesome, thanks.

 

[hermannr]

Awesome, thanks.

I forgot to add...If HIS FFL will accept from private parties, you han hand deliver to his FFL.

 

[Frog]

I forgot to add...If HIS FFL will accept from private parties, you han hand deliver to his FFL.

I do not not believe this to be true. Check with your FFL

Frog.

 

[fd15k]

I do not not believe this to be true. Check with your FFL

Frog.

FFL may or may not know that stuff, you'd have to verify with ATF. Otherwise hermannr got it all correct.

 

[hermannr]

I do not not believe this to be true. Check with your FFL

Frog.

Q: May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser's own State?
A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons

My emphasis, from ATF Q&A follow the link. Remember, when the ATF state "unlicensed" they mean no FFL, not any license pertaining to the state you live i

 

[phathom]

Hi all, just want to make sure i have this down.
A bud of my whom lives in or wants to buy a hand gun from me. I live in washington.

whats the best way to do the transfer? In oregon or in wa?

I am assuming that i need to ship it to his ffl dealer. Can i ship it directly from me to the ffl, or dose it need to be ffl to ffl?

Thanks in advance.

I'll make it easy for you.
1) You can transfer private party across state lines only if it is transferred through a FFL in the purchaser's state.
2) It is up to the FFL (whichever one you may find) if they will due the transfer at all, if they require it shipped in from a private party, if you have to have it shipped from a FFL in your state to them, or if you can simply walk in with both parties, pay the fee, purchaser pay the back ground check, and be on your way.
3) A Cut Above Pawn in Beaverton will do this for you for $25 + Background check for the buyer (last time I checked). All that is required of you, is for both of you to walk in there, with the firearm, and request the transfer from you (WA resident) to him (OR resident) They will collect the money, run the OSP background check, and if that clears, your buyer is legally the owner of the firearm and you're done.

 

[mcpoo]

OK this may be the most basic question on this thread.

Background: I'm 40 years old and have never owned a gun before, but because of today's economic/political climate, I've decided to buy one - but have yet to pull the trigger (see I'm liking this already!)

I understand from reading other peeps questions, that in order to buy a gun FTF when both parties and the transaction are based in OR, a buyer must verify that the seller is legitimate. This is a verification which I assume from classified postings, can be satisfied by checking/providing one's drivers license?

So, I can just buy an SKS (for example) with no documentation required other than my ODL? Am I then required to make a copy of the seller's driver's license - or write the seller's name and license number down? Is he/she required to take down my info as well?

If so, how long am I required to keep said information/documentation to prove I made a reasonable effort to check that the seller was legitimate?

Would I then be required to register the gun somewhere within a certain time-frame?

Thanks, whole new world out there and it sounds like penalties for ignorance can be severe.

McPoo

 

[fd15k]

OK this may be the most basic question on this thread.

Background: I'm 40 years old and have never owned a gun before, but because of today's economic/political climate, I've decided to buy one - but have yet to pull the trigger (see I'm liking this already!)

Please get trained as well.

I understand from reading other peeps questions, that in order to buy a gun FTF when both parties and the transaction are based in OR, a buyer must verify that the seller is legitimate. This is a verification which I assume from classified postings, can be satisfied by checking/providing one's drivers license?

More like seller has to verify the buyer is legitimate - this is about not letting guns into hands of prohibited persons. As a buyer you want to verify the seller is from the same state indeed by checking their ID.

So, I can just buy an SKS (for example) with no documentation required other than my ODL? Am I then required to make a copy of the seller's driver's license - or write the seller's name and license number down? Is he/she required to take down my info as well?

Correct, you can buy such SKS in most cases with just your DL. Seller may require more stuff from you, such as CHL or bill of sale. Neither party is required to keep any documentation for a transaction between nonlicensees. I personally think it is a good idea to keep records of who you sold to or who you bought a firearm from. Others may disagree.

If so, how long am I required to keep said information/documentation to prove I made a reasonable effort to check that the seller was legitimate?

Not required to keep at all. Burden of proof is on the state, so unless you incriminate yourself or the other party is an undercover agent and you don't make any effort (asking questions, checking ID, not reacting to certain indicators) it is unlikely that they would go after you. But don't take shortcuts regardless!

Would I then be required to register the gun somewhere within a certain time-frame?

Thanks, whole new world out there and it sounds like penalties for ignorance can be severe.

McPoo

There is no registration under federal or Oregon law.

As a buyer you have little to worry about, assuming your are eligible for firearm ownership/possession.

 

[mcpoo]

Thank you - yeah I suppose the hunter safety course I took 25 years ago is inadequate

Please get trained as well.



More like seller has to verify the buyer is legitimate - this is about not letting guns into hands of prohibited persons. As a buyer you want to verify the seller is from the same state indeed by checking their ID.



Correct, you can buy such SKS in most cases with just your DL. Seller may require more stuff from you, such as CHL or bill of sale. Neither party is required to keep any documentation for a transaction between nonlicensees. I personally think it is a good idea to keep records of who you sold to or who you bought a firearm from. Others may disagree.



Not required to keep at all. Burden of proof is on the state, so unless you incriminate yourself or the other party is an undercover agent and you don't make any effort (asking questions, checking ID, not reacting to certain indicators) it is unlikely that they would go after you. But don't take shortcuts regardless!



There is no registration under federal or Oregon law.

As a buyer you have little to worry about, assuming your are eligible for firearm ownership/possession.

 

[MikeSettles]

When I have sold a gun privately (here in Washington), I created a bill of sale with a statement on it that the buyer signed promising that he was not a prohibited person. Also included: The weapon make, model, and serial number. A picture is good too.

If the firearm is used/found at the scene of the crime, all the police can do (through the ATF) is locate the the FFL who sold it to the first private party (through the ATF 4473): If you bought it from a gun store, police might come visit you. Your bill of sale shows them that YOU didn't have it when that old lady's yappy pomeranian died.

Cheers!

 

[Nwcid]

I understand from reading other peeps questions, that in order to buy a gun FTF when both parties and the transaction are based in OR, a buyer must verify that the seller is legitimate. This is a verification which I assume from classified postings, can be satisfied by checking/providing one's drivers license?

This is FALSE. You do NOT have to verify the seller or buyer is "legitimate" and not only that you have NO way to find out. Just because a person has a DL does not mean they can legally buy a gun. What the law actually says is "if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law", ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons What this means is exactly what it says, you talk to the buyer/seller a couple of times in the process of making the deal and he does not say anything that would make you think he could not own one and shows up in a car with OR plates in your case. Do you have any reason to believe he can not legally buy your gun? Now say the same thing happened and he pulled up in a car with WA plates (in your case) on it, that WOULD give you "reasonable cause" and if he gave me a legit reason why I would simply ask to quickly see his OR license and problem solved.

So, I can just buy an SKS (for example) with no documentation required other than my ODL? Am I then required to make a copy of the seller's driver's license - or write the seller's name and license number down? Is he/she required to take down my info as well?

You can buy/sell face to face with NO documentation required at all. NONE

Now many people feel better having a whole pile of info on the buyer/seller because it make them feel better somehow but it is NOT the law. It is the buyer/sellers deal and they can make any rules that makes them happy but again it is not the law. I am not sure why if they are that concerned why not just take it to an FFL and get a legit check and transfer.

People that require more then the law does are people I dont buy from but that is my choice. I have passed over a few good deals here because of the requirements of the seller. Some have been listed a long time........

If so, how long am I required to keep said information/documentation to prove I made a reasonable effort to check that the seller was legitimate?

See above. NONE

Would I then be required to register the gun somewhere within a certain time-frame?

There is no Federal registration on Title 1 firearms and OR does not have registration either so the answer is no.

Thanks, whole new world out there and it sounds like penalties for ignorance can be severe.

McPoo

No worries

As for "cops come knocking at the door" all you have to do is say you sold it. Roughly when and anything you might remember. This is still a free country and the "Police" have to have cause to arrest/detain you. Just cause you once owned the gun would not be enough cause.

 

[fd15k]

This is FALSE. You do NOT have to verify the seller or buyer is "legitimate" and not only that you have NO way to find out. Just because a person has a DL does not mean they can legally buy a gun. What the law actually says is "if he does not know or have reasonable cause to believe the person is prohibited from receiving or possessing firearms under Federal law", ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons What this means is exactly what it says, you talk to the buyer/seller a couple of times in the process of making the deal and he does not say anything that would make you think he could not own one and shows up in a car with OR plates in your case. Do you have any reason to believe he can not legally buy your gun? Now say the same thing happened and he pulled up in a car with WA plates (in your case) on it, that WOULD give you "reasonable cause" and if he gave me a legit reason why I would simply ask to quickly see his OR license and problem solved.

Well, think about it this way. Charges are filed against you for selling a handgun to a minor who then slaughtered half of his school mates. DA will be using "reasonable person" standard to articulate that you have knowingly sold a handgun to a prohibited person. You can then say "oh, but he came on foot, so I couldn't see what number plates he has on his car, so I assumed he is okay to have a handgun"...

 

[Nwcid]

Well, think about it this way. Charges are filed against you for selling a handgun to a minor who then slaughtered half of his school mates. DA will be using "reasonable person" standard to articulate that you have knowingly sold a handgun to a prohibited person. You can then say "oh, but he came on foot, so I couldn't see what number plates he has on his car, so I assumed he is okay to have a handgun"...

Did you have reason to believe he was a minor? Did you have reason to believe he was from out of state? That is what the law says. You are not an FFL with Federally set rules. What in your statement shows you "knowingly" sold the gun to a minor? Also define minor, it is legal for FTF of handguns to people over 18 vs 21 from FFL. Also if they are under 18 the good news for you is the ONLY law you could have broke was http://www.oregonlaws.org/ors/166.470 and the worst punishment is "Class A misdemeanor" IF they find you guilty.

If the person shows up and the deal feels bad or the person looks "too young" ask more questions. I have refused to do deals with people even though they were willing to sign all kinds of paper and copy ID's and whatever because the deal felt bad.

Like all these other thread end do what YOU feel like doing and makes you happy, it is YOUR deal. Please just dont confuse YOUR rules with the law......

 

[fd15k]

Did you have reason to believe he was a minor? Did you have reason to believe he was from out of state? That is what the law says. You are not an FFL with Federally set rules.

If the person shows up and the deal feels bad or the person looks "too young" ask more questions. I have refused to do deals with people even though they were willing to sign all kinds of paper and copy ID's and whatever because the deal felt bad.

Like all these other thread end do what YOU feel like doing and makes you happy, it is YOUR deal. Please just dont confuse YOUR rules with the law......

This is not about my rules. This is about Criminal negligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia You can be in compliance to the firearms laws, but still be negligent. And you're right, everyone will decide for themselves how
to handle this stuff, I just wanted to point out some additional considerations.