Firearms in SUVs and pickups with no 'lockable' compartments

[The Heretic]

I sometimes buy handguns. My three vehicles pretty much have no compartments completely separate from the passenger compartment, and IIRC none have lockable compartments either. SUV cargo areas or somewhat accessible to passengers. Pickups have an area behind a seat, some have an extended cab with an area under/behind the rear seat, but again, not lockable and accessible to passengers.

My SUV has two hidden cargo areas and most of the time the general cargo area itself has a lid on it that could technically be removed by a rear passenger, it isn't easy to do. Main area with lid:



First layer under that:


And under that area is another smaller area where I keep a pistol and ammo. It would be very difficult, but technically possible for a passenger in the rear seat to get to the pistol.

I believe that carrying that unloaded pistol concealed like that, I am technically in violation of the law. Yes, I know, I should just get a permit, but still, the question is, am in violation? Is there any court precedent on this?

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[Alexx1401]

If it just needs to be "locked" and you don't want to get a permit I would just use some kind of locking case. Does your state have a law that even an empty gun can't be in the vehicle unless in some locked compartment?? There are cars that just have no such thing. So again not a lawyer but I find it hard to believe they could go after you if the gun was empty and in some kind of locked case?

 

[The Heretic]

This is the law:

ORS 166.250 - Unlawful possession of firearms - 2015 Oregon Revised Statutes

In short, in an automobile, if it isn't in a locked case, and is "readily accessible".

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this subsection, a handgun is readily accessible within the meaning of this section if the handgun is within the passenger compartment of the vehicle.

(b)If a vehicle, other than a vehicle described in paragraph (c) of this subsection, has no storage location that is outside the passenger compartment of the vehicle, a handgun is not readily accessible within the meaning of this section if:

(A)The handgun is stored in a closed and locked glove compartment, center console or other container; and

(B)The key is not inserted into the lock, if the glove compartment, center console or other container unlocks with a key.

 

[The Heretic]

Note that the law cited makes no differentiation on whether the firearm is loaded or not. It cannot be "readily accessible".

To me, it is debatable whether the cargo compartment is "readily accessible".

FYI - I have no locking case for a handgun. All of my locking cases are huge Pelican rifle cases. The cargo compartments in my SUV have no locks on them.

To be safe from prosecution I should probably get a permit - been meaning to anyway, let my WA permit expire back when they changed the rules. There are a few times when I do want/need to carry concealed; ironically, it is usually when I go to buy guns (or some other item) and I have a significant amount of cash on my person, or the few times I go into downtown PDX proper. This would also allow me to conceal the handgun in the center console and make it readily accessible all the time.

 

[Alexx1401]

Note that the law cited makes no differentiation on whether the firearm is loaded or not. It cannot be "readily accessible".

To me, it is debatable whether the cargo compartment is "readily accessible".

FYI - I have no locking case for a handgun. All of my locking cases are huge Pelican rifle cases. The cargo compartments in my SUV have no locks on them.

To be safe from prosecution I should probably get a permit - been meaning to anyway, let my WA permit expire back when they changed the rules. There are a few times when I do want/need to carry concealed; ironically, it is usually when I go to buy guns (or some other item) and I have a significant amount of cash on my person, or the few times I go into downtown PDX proper. This would also allow me to conceal the handgun in the center console and make it readily accessible all the time.

Permit would of course be best. In the mean time or if you don't want to get one I would just pick up one of those cheap plastic truck boxes. Wife and I have a couple of them we use in our Jeeps just to store stuff. Got them at Wal-Mart. They can be padlocked or some have a built in key lock. Of course dead simple to break into but it's locked so you should be covered.

 

[awshoot]

This is of no help to you, but for the WA people it may be interesting. My read is that in WA it is OK so long as the pistol is unloaded (only loaded weapons require a concealed carry permit): RCW 9.41.050: Carrying firearms.

This is made clearer in RCW 9.41.060: Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms. -- paragraph 9 says that carrying restrictions don't apply "... while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper".

Obviously, this isn't legal advice and I could be wrong.

 

[Camelfilter]

Yar, as other folks mention CHL would be best.

Second to that, for a touch more secure stowage, would be a pistol lock box with a cable hoop. Should be able to find one under $100.

Provides you with both abiding the legalities, but moreso prevents a smash & grab type theft. Easier access for you as well, depending upon where you would locate the lock box.

We have one of these guys:

Amazon.com: SentrySafe PP1K Portable Pistol Safe: Home Improvement

I think we picked it up at BiMart on special (could be wrong on where we bought it tho). Is perfect for the application noted above. Cable hoops around seat mount fine, box can be covered with a jacket etc if it won't slide back under your seat.

Fits a full size & 2 extra magazines fine, or 2 midsize to compacts. Extra space for magazines depends on the size of the handguns. Our CZ RAMI fits in it holstered with an OWB holster, the CZ PCR needs to be in its IWB. If both are in there they both need there IWB's.

 

[Koda]

here is what the federal law has to say...: 18 U.S.C. 926A

….to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver's compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

 

[awshoot]

here is what the federal law has to say...: 18 U.S.C. 926A ...

The title of that law: Interstate transportation of firearms

So if you are staying wholly inside one state, it doesn't apply. Cross a border though, and it does.

 

[ikemay]

Note that the law cited makes no differentiation on whether the firearm is loaded or not. It cannot be "readily accessible".

To me, it is debatable whether the cargo compartment is "readily accessible".

FYI - I have no locking case for a handgun. All of my locking cases are huge Pelican rifle cases. The cargo compartments in my SUV have no locks on them.

To be safe from prosecution I should probably get a permit - been meaning to anyway, let my WA permit expire back when they changed the rules. There are a few times when I do want/need to carry concealed; ironically, it is usually when I go to buy guns (or some other item) and I have a significant amount of cash on my person, or the few times I go into downtown PDX proper. This would also allow me to conceal the handgun in the center console and make it readily accessible all the time.

If the firearm comes in a plastic case, put a lock on that. Or, simply use the lock that came with the firearm or something similar and "disable" it that way. Doesn't need to be an actual gun safe/vault. Heck an old tackle or tool box with a lock on it would work too. Any of those methods plus putting them in the back under all your stuff would probably keep you out of trouble. In any case, would probably help in the event you get a LEO who is not having a good day.

But yes, getting your permit would absolutely be beneficial.

Best of luck.

 

[Oya]

I have an Oregon and Utah CHL. All my vehicles are either truck or SUV with no"trunk". When I travel I lock the loaded firearm in the glove box. Key not in the lock. If the weapon is out of the glove box it's either concealed on my person, or unloaded if in the unlocked console. Bullets or clip concealed. That's survived one speeding stop by a whole passel of E.Washington LEO's manning a speed trap. At the beginning of the stop I most certainly told the LEO's I had a loaded firearm in my locked glove compartment and that I posse a CHL (Utah). Officer thanked me, asked me open the glove box , to take clip out and hand the firearm to him during the stop. I complied of course. I got the ticket but was also thanked for handling the firearm disclosure as I did , put the clip back in, back in the glove box, locked it and went on my way.

 

[The Heretic]

I had a Bronco II decades ago and got stopped at the Lacey exit by a stater. I had a number of rifles in hard cases in the back that were visible. I forget the discussion, but the subject came up that there were firearms in the cases. I did not have to show them or anything.

There was another time I was stopped - coming from Newport to Salem when I had a bunch of handguns scattered all over the car - a station wagon with no lockable compartments. OSP stopped me near Kings Valley. Almost got in big trouble for that. I had just got off 48 hours of duty (USCG) and was burned out stupid tired. I didn't think about having the guns in the car. At least they were not loaded but some were hidden. Talked to the DA's office later that day and they decided not to press charges.

 

[wayoutwest]

This is the law:

ORS 166.250 - Unlawful possession of firearms - 2015 Oregon Revised Statutes

In short, in an automobile, if it isn't in a locked case, and is "readily accessible".

(a) Except as provided in paragraphs (b) and (c) of this subsection, a handgun is readily accessible within the meaning of this section if the handgun is within the passenger compartment of the vehicle.

(b)If a vehicle, other than a vehicle described in paragraph (c) of this subsection, has no storage location that is outside the passenger compartment of the vehicle, a handgun is not readily accessible within the meaning of this section if:

(A)The handgun is stored in a closed and locked glove compartment, center console or other container; and

(B)The key is not inserted into the lock, if the glove compartment, center console or other container unlocks with a key.

IF you are the driver and you have your gun in the rear hatch area under all that stuff above it's NOT readily accessible to you or the passenger. You couldn't reach it while driving, you couldn't easily reach sitting on the side of the road during a traffic stop. Your rear passengers shouldn't even know its there. IMO you have made a reasonable effort to make it NOT "readily accessible". And the word 'reasonable' it regularly found within the law.

 

[Misteramax]

Nice thread about officials over stepping bounds, privacy, and hating guns. Oops, I said that out loud? Lol.

 

[Joe13]

Nice load out you have back there - kudos