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Firearms from U.S. being used in Mexico drug violence

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by gehrheart, Dec 13, 2010.

  1. gehrheart

    gehrheart fidalgo island Well-Known Member

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    This Crap really needs to stop. I know NBC is bad,.....



    the rest here------------- Firearms from U.S. used in Mexico drug violence - World news - Americas - Focus on Mexico - msnbc.com
     
  2. mjbskwim

    mjbskwim Salmon,Idaho Well-Known Member

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    Ummm,well,where else are they gunna come from?
    There is water on both sides (need to have some boats/ships) and the central American countries can't provide many(other than the ones the CIA dropped off)

    So where else are the bad guys going to get them easily?

    Steal them from the US or pay somebody with low morals and a low bank account to get them some how

    Bad guys will always find a way to get guns.They will always find someone willing to do bad things for money.
    If they can't get them from here,THEN they will go to China,etc and get them.

    Oh and the media will always sensationalize everything to do with guns
    It's their job.
     
  3. rufus

    rufus State of Jefferson Well-Known Member

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    Not to worry folks, the ATF is on the case. Their Project Gunrunner has stopped 16 guns from going to Mexican drug cartels. Sixteen guns! Cost to the American taxpayer: $81.3 million. Way to go! :thumbup:

    Read more: ATF Project Gunrunner Nets 16 Guns

    (just noticed the thread about this below... nevermind)
     
  4. gehrheart

    gehrheart fidalgo island Well-Known Member

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    Everything feels better now. :rockon:
     
  5. atypicalparkie

    atypicalparkie sowfeast poetland, ohraygun Member

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    The profit motive trumps all else. There are untold zillions of guns to be had in (almost) every Central and South American country & tons have to be going to Mexico from those places too, but the Mexican drug cartels can more easily pay some kids a few bucks to get new AK's, SKS's, whatever, from just over the US border... and those kids take the heat if they get caught taking them across the border into Mexico. What are they gonna do, rat out the cartel? Probably not, if they want to live more than an hour in lock-up. Just like drug 'mules' bringing coke etc. into the States, for the cartels it's an acceptable cost of doing 'business'. ****, on their scale, $100 million lost on drug or gun mules who can't deliver their cargo would be a drop in the bucket.

    That being said, of course there's NO way to track where the other seized weapons come from... leftovers from Peru's Shining Path? Contras? Any of a thousand other international arms dealers or guerrilla groups? Cripes, the sources are endless. Any person or group with utterly unlimited funds can find ANYthing they want, in any quantity, at any time...

    And, sure, we can admit that there are some shady gun dealers in the US who'd gladly look the other way/not ask questions that 99.99% of dealers would if some young kid wants to buy 20 AK's at a time... especially if they get a few extra $$ back-handed to them. That would raise some red flags for an honest dealer, I reckon we'd agree.

    It is lame above all that the Mexican government is now and has been extraordinarily corrupt for longer than I've been alive. The disparity of wealth between the Ruling Class and the average Mexican citizen is beyond shocking... The Mexican government is seemingly unwilling and/or unable to make the slightest dent in the activities of the various cartels.

    They can't protect their citizens, the honest members of their military or police, or the press from cartel violence. A Mexican policeman or border guard is offered the equivalent of a years' salary or more to look the other way, or help crates find their way across without being checked... and we've heard/read/seen the results of what happens to those that won't play ball with the cartels. According to a quick google search, more journalist were tortured and/or killed in Mexico this year than in Iraq, for example.

    I sure don't have an easy answer. We make a lot of guns here in the US. But even if by some impossible act of magic no more guns could ever cross the border again, the cartels would certainly get all they wanted from other places. The US can't possibly be the only source of weapons for the cartels, we're just the only country that has any sort of tracking mechanism in place...

    During the 'Troubles' in Northern Ireland, there were a lot of charity/front-organizations that paid for & exported weapons to paramilitary groups on both sides of the equation. When the US & UK tightened down on things, Libya, Iran, various South American countries, int'l arms dealers etc. quickly filled the void. There was money to be made, and always some country or private dealer willing to get paid...
     
  6. PBinWA

    PBinWA Clark County Well-Known Member

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    You wonder how many guns from Mexico and Central America end up in the USA? I bet that would be a sobering statistic.
     
  7. MA Duce

    MA Duce Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Actually I don't imagine it is a blip on the radar. But that's not the point. The gun grabbers here are using the demand by narco-terrorists in Mexico as an excuse to screw down on legal ownership here. Is asking for better border enforcement out of line here or am I just crazy?
     
  8. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Crazy no. Its just not practical. The money and manpower it would take to secure our southern border while still providing the massive gov't based entitlement and dept payment schedule we have would send shivers down your spine. Personally I can live with Mexicans shooting themselves with our guns. They do it because theres money to be made in the illegal trade of drugs. We wont make them legal to kill the illicit trade so in the end the blame is on our shoulders.
     
  9. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Sorry wired, that's a pantload that has been beaten to death here. If the drugs OR the guns, AND/OR our appetite for either were truly responsible, the deaths would be just as prevalent this side of the border.

    You have been fed a line of hogwash. Whether you swallow and regurgitate it is up to you.
    It's not too late.
     
  10. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    You can believe that if you want but its the drug trade fueling the violence in Northern Mexico because of the money involved. The same thing happened in the US when prohibition was active. We repealed prohibition but didnt learn any lessons from it. When more of the drug violence starts spilling into the US in a few years things might change. Not saying it hasnt already but the Mexican gangs try to keep it on the down low for the most part once on this side of the border. No holds barred back in Mexico.
     
  11. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Right. The pot smokers love your argument. The problem is the other drugs. Like ecstasy, heroin, meth and coke. The ones that offer way more profit margin and quicker turnaround.

    You want all those legalized? You are advocating dragging the American people down a rat hole of drug addiction to try and alleviate/eliminate illegal behavior in Mexico and elsewhere.
    That's ludicrous!

    And if these drugs are all legalized, apologists seem to think this type of illegal conduct by Mexican cartels will evaporate.
    I have news for you, criminals are criminals. They will find some other form of contraband to make money from, and their violent ways will still accompany that trade.

    What would you propose to do then?
     
  12. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    Coke, escstacy, heroin and meth are already here. People are doing them even though they are illegal and they steal and kill to support their expensive habits. Locking them up doesnt do anyone any good except the corporations that run the jails. Legalize them and regulate them and provide treatment and we'll save money and save lives.
     
  13. MA Duce

    MA Duce Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Consider this. The US/Mexican border is 1969 miles long. If you placed a CP every mile with a staff of five 24/7 it would take 9845 troops assuming a typical rotation of 4 hours on watch and 8 off. Less if the watches were extended to 8 hours. With remote camera/IR/listening stations set 1/8 of a mile apart between the manned posts..and a quick reaction group in helicopters at suitable intervals you would need just a fraction of the number of troops we have deployed overseas, even when you factor in the assumed 6/1 ratio of support to shooters. IT CAN BE DONE. Plus the wages, commerce and housing dollars required would be spent in the US. It just takes political willpower.
     
  14. Jamie6.5

    Jamie6.5 Western OR Well-Known Member

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    Right. There is no problem that education, treatment and re-hab can't cure.
    After billions spent for the last 40 years it should be easy to see that doesn't work.
    Yet the left keeps trying. The definition of insanity.

    Spare me. Put Joe Arpaio in charge of the border for a few years.
    Follow that up with political pressure to relax gun laws in Mexico so Mexicans can defend themselves, and this problem will go away.

    Everywhere there has been a high crime/violence rate, and then gun laws for LACs have been relaxed, the crime rate, especially violent crimes, have dropped.

    Mexico doesn't need fewer guns and less ammo, they need more guns. In the hands of everyday citizens.
     
  15. gehrheart

    gehrheart fidalgo island Well-Known Member

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    Lets look at history for that.

    We at one time banned spirits. The great prohibition. Those years sparked the new breed of organized crime. The mafia feed from it grew to huge proportions at that time.

    We learned and changed, striking away the prohibition on spirits.....

    The crime rings did not go away, they changed how to make money. In fact, the problem became worse as competition for money increased.

    Personally, I don't care if a person grows a plant and lights one off.... but the rest would only redirect the problems we have and create new ones. Crime and the border killings will not just go away because it is all legal here.


    That is wishful thinking and from what we have learned from history, false.

    Our federal government was set up over two hundred years ago to with some very basic jobs to perform. Unite the republic and protect the borders. It's failing at that.

    Bring our military home and put them to task of protect the borders and the intent of the structuring of our government. Quite being the babysitter of the ungrateful world.
     
  16. MA Duce

    MA Duce Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    "Bring our military home and put them to task of protect the borders and the intent of the structuring of our government. Quite being the babysitter of the ungrateful world." :thumbup: Well said Gehrheart.

    Bingo. Let's spend the money needed to support our troop here at home.
     
  17. wired

    wired Yakima Well-Known Member

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    So you'd like to repeal the Posse Comitatus Act ?
     
  18. clearconscience

    clearconscience Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    I hate that you hear about the guns the U.S. catches, but never, never do you hear where they came from, how they got them, etc.
    What ever happened to the 147 AKs, 10k in ammo, and 500 magazines the ATF confiscated at the border in Texas last year? Where the heck did those come from?
     
  19. MA Duce

    MA Duce Central Oregon Well-Known Member

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    Nope. Make a one mile wide strip along the border a military reservation. The military has the right to effect security on military reservations and bases. The CBP could prosecute chases of those who might make it through that area. Posse Comitatus should never be repealed.
     
  20. CEF1959

    CEF1959 Willamette Valley, Oregon New Member

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    You willing to increase the federal budget to pay for that? Not in favor of smaller government and less federal spending?