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Firearms and Reservations

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by WhyteCheddar, Jun 26, 2011.

  1. WhyteCheddar

    WhyteCheddar East of Moscow by the Willamette Well-Known Member

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    I have done a little searching here on the topic of transporting firearms across Indian Reservations but have not come up with a conclusive answer yet.
    Far as I can tell I cannot carry concealed when traveling across say, Warm Springs, but what is the legal/proper method to transport? Is it even allowed by the Tribe?
    Didnt see it in the ORS, or at least if I did see it I didnt recognize it as the answer.
    Anyone have a definitive answer?
     
  2. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Are you talkin on or off a state hiway? Cause on a State Hiway your on a State Hiway. Off the road your on Indian land and subject to there laws. Should be a pretty simple thing to call the Warm Springs Police dept and ask them.



    Public Safety 541-553-3272
     
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  3. joeroket

    joeroket Everett,Wa. Active Member

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    Tribal laws are only applicable to tribal members. If you are not a tribal member the only thing they can do is to trespass you from their tribal land, which is something I have never heard of happening for the simple act of lawfully carrying a firearm. They cannot issue you a citation or arrest you for violating their tribal laws unless it is something that is unlawful under state or federal law.
     
  4. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Yes but the FEDERAL laws the reservations operate under sure can.
     
  5. joeroket

    joeroket Everett,Wa. Active Member

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    True but there is no federal code that makes it a crime to carry a firearm on a reservation. Thats why I said that they cannot cite or arrest unless it is for an act that is unlawful under a governmental statute.
     
  6. WhyteCheddar

    WhyteCheddar East of Moscow by the Willamette Well-Known Member

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    So non tribal members are immune to reservation law?
    I have been skimming the OFF site for info as well and havent ran across it yet.
     
  7. joeroket

    joeroket Everett,Wa. Active Member

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    Not necessarily immune. You can be trespassed from tribal property if you violate them. Think of it as private property. Property owners can set rules for use of their property. If they don't want you there they can have you trespassed from the property but none of their rules are enforceable by LEO. A lot of the tribes laws mimic state and federal statutes but the purpose for them is to bring the tribal members who break them under the jurisdiction of the tribal courts and because they are a sovereign nation they set them to keep and maintain their own authority.

    I try to abide with the tribal law just out of respect for the tribal people. It is their land and it is no different than going to another state which I must abide by their laws.
     
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  8. One-Eyed Ross

    One-Eyed Ross Winlock, WA Well-Known Member

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    And tribal police can hold you for the county sheriff if necessary, so don't try running away from one just because you think they can't cite you....
     
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  9. ejmpnu92

    ejmpnu92 Hillsboro, Or Active Member

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    INDIAN RESERVATIONS/PROPERTY

    Because each tribal council makes the rules that apply on its reservation, the firearms rules on Indian reservations vary greatly. For the most part, non-Indians are prohibited from carrying guns on reservations or tribal lands except with the permission of the tribal council. Therefore, your CHL probably has no meaning on most Indian lands. This also applies to certain casinos operated by the tribes and you should not carry your firearm while visiting there.

    source:Concealed Handgun Licenses | Polk County, Oregon
     
  10. ejmpnu92

    ejmpnu92 Hillsboro, Or Active Member

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  11. saxon

    saxon springfield Active Member

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    first off
    i agree


    second

    tribal lands are FEDERAL and we all know you can not carry on FEDERAL property post office court fed building etc etc.

    when you enter tribal land you are under reservation law NOT U.S. law

    Tulalip Tribes of Washington Codes and Regulations
    3.12.1. Carrying concealed weapon.

    1. A person commits the offense of carrying a concealed weapon by knowingly carrying or bearing a dirk, dagger, pistol, revolver, slingshot, sword cane, billy club, knuckles made of any metal or other hard substance, knife having a blade at least 4 inches long, non-safety type razor, or any other deadly weapon which is wholly or partially covered by the clothing or wearing apparel of the person carrying the weapon, or is carried any place within the occupant compartment of a motor vehicle.

    2. Subsection (1) does not apply to:

    a. any law enforcement officer;

    b. a person authorized by a judge of the Tribal Court to carry a concealed weapon;

    c. a person permitted under state (note it says AND) and tribal law to carry a concealed weapon; or

    d. the carrying of arms on one's own premises or at one's home or place of business.

    3. Carrying a concealed weapon is a Class C offense.



    also




    Now, the Swinomish Tribal code is a bit more reasonable

    http://www.narf.org/nill/Codes/swinomishcode/4_5.pdf


    4-05.010 Carrying Concealed Weapon.
    (A) Any person who goes about in public places armed with a dangerous weapon or
    firearm concealed upon his or her person, without having a current valid concealed
    weapons permit issued by the Tribe or another jurisdiction, commits the
    Class B
    offense
    of carrying a concealed weapon.
    (B) Tribal law enforcement officers are exempted from this section.
    [History] Ord. 184 (9/30/03); Ord. 75 (4/2/91).
     
  12. oregonty

    oregonty Salem, OR Active Member

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    Saxon

    Just a quick correction. You CAN carry in a Post Office. That is perfectly legal.
     
  13. ejmpnu92

    ejmpnu92 Hillsboro, Or Active Member

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    14. Even with a concealed handgun license, where can I not carry a firearm?

    Oregon Law states: Possession of a Concealed Handgun License does not authorize you to carry a firearm on any of the following properties: Any Federal facility. (i.e., Federal Court House, Post Office, Social Security Office, in airports, and on airplanes). This does not prohibit the carrying of firearms on federal lands, other than designated wilderness areas, incident to hunting or other lawful purposes. National Forests marked or posted by signs prohibiting all firearms. You may not carry a firearm concealed while upon an Indian Reservation/Indian property without the written permission of the tribal judge. This may also apply to certain casinos that are on the Indian lands. In a courtroom, jury room, judge's chambers or the areas adjacent thereto that the presiding judge determines should be free of firearms to ensure the safety of the litigants, court personnel, witnesses and others. Additionally, many private businesses have conditions regarding the possession of firearms on their premises. If you violate these conditions you could, under certain circumstances, be subject to arrest under Oregon trespass laws, in which case your concealed handgun license would be seized and/or revoked.

    Concealed Handgun License: Lincoln County Sheriff's Office, Oregon
     
  14. oregonty

    oregonty Salem, OR Active Member

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    You can carry in a Post Office. It is a federal facility but the employees are not federally funded. This is something that many people do not know. The law states that you can not carry in a Federal Facility that has Federal employees. You can also carry in an Airport. You can not carry in the secured portions of the airport. Know your laws! FYI
     
  15. oregonty

    oregonty Salem, OR Active Member

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    You need to know what the definition of a Federal Facility is. This is how a Federal Facility is defined. "a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties."

    The Post Office does not have Federal Employees and therefore is not considered a Federal Facility.
     
  16. pchewn

    pchewn Beaverton Oregon USA Well-Known Member

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    Lincoln County Sheriff's Office list seems wrong to me. Airports are not prohibited by state law, neither are Post offices. They need to update their web site.

     
  17. saxon

    saxon springfield Active Member

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    ok while i was addressing tribal lands,,,,,,

    if you go some where a sign is posted NO guns line through it etc etc can a CHL holder go in?
    yes
    are they violating the signage?
    yes

    if the yare found out can they get arested fro trespass with a gun? you betchea
     
  18. enyaw

    enyaw Salem, OR New Member

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    Really? When did United States Postal Service employees stop being federal employees?
     
  19. ejmpnu92

    ejmpnu92 Hillsboro, Or Active Member

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    The Gun Zone RKBA -- 39 CFR 232.1
    There is a high lighted part at the top that will take you directly to the firearms section.

    Title 39--Postal Service

    (l) Weapons and explosives. No person while on postal property may
    carry firearms, other dangerous or deadly weapons, or explosives, either
    openly or concealed, or store the same on postal property, except for
    official purposes


    The same as, just from governmental source.
    Section

    While it may not be a federal facility, The post office does prohibit firearms in the facility, per its regulations.

    And you are right Pchewn, could not find a state law pertaining to it.
     
  20. sig40shooter

    sig40shooter Tahuya WA Member

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    So here is my input on the OP's topic. I just got off the phone with the suquamish police dept in WA state and on their land they honor the WA CPL. The only exception is the tribal center building and the casino. This is the closest Res. to me so that is why I called them. (also for my own piece of mind since I go there with some frequency.)

    As far as Post Offices... I found this at Concealed Weapon FAQ

    Prohibited places to carry

    The Washington state firearm law has designated certain areas where it is a violation of law to possess a firearm, regardless of whether you are lawfully carrying concealed. The prohibited areas are: restricted access areas of a jail; the area used in connection with court proceedings; restricted access areas of a mental health facility; that portion of an establishment classified by the liquor control board as off-limits to persons under 21 years of age; restricted access areas of a commercial service airport; and public or private elementary and secondary school premises. This can be found in RCW 9.41.300. Municipalities may also have laws, in keeping with state law, that prohibit firearm possession.

    No mention of Post offices... However, if there is a sign that says don't do it... I wouldn't