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firearm stolen by fraud?

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by wanted, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. wanted

    wanted eugene New Member

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    if two people trade guns and one thinks he has been ripped off, such as someone who thinks they have been traded a MINI 14 but it was a SUB2000, how anyone can get those two confused is beyond me, but anyway, can the gun be turned over to the ATF as stolen by fraud ?
     
  2. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    It's civil problem, for the civil court to figure out.
     
  3. Unka-Boo

    Unka-Boo Milwaukie Active Member

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    Why would they have gone through with the transaction if it wasn't for the gun that was discussed?
     
  4. wanted

    wanted eugene New Member

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    thats what id like to know, is there even such a thing as stolen by fraud?
     
  5. PhysicsGuy

    PhysicsGuy Corvallis, OR Resident Science Nut

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    I think either its theft, or fraud, not both.
     
  6. elcid11

    elcid11 Beaverton New Member

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    There is a criminal law in Oregon,

    Theft by Deception.

    This would fall under that, however I don't believe the above mentioned circumstance would count.


    It would be more like, this is a mini 14, and then you get home and find out it is really a non firing replica...that would be a crime.

    But a totally different gun when the ppl are together and go ahead with it...mmmmm....more like traders remorse.
     
  7. Weebs

    Weebs Clackamas County Member

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    If could be that a person was buying as a gift and was told to get a mini-14. Said person may not know what they were buying and was relying on the honesty of the seller to give them what they asked for.

    If you give us more details to the transaction we may be of better assistance.
     
  8. wanted

    wanted eugene New Member

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    here's the full story,,, about a month ago i emailed a guy and asked if he would be interested in trading his M1 for my MINI 14, then i found out that it was an inland police model and i wasnt much interested, a few weeks go by and i see that his ad is still there so i email him and ask him if he would be interested in a SUB2000 with many extras plus some cash on my end, he mailed back and said sounds good what caliber is the mini?,, i sensed he was alittle confused, so i wrote him back this

    the sub2000 is 9mm it takes glock mags and comes with AR style handgaurd and original handgaurd, and a front folding foregrip and mount plus one 10rnd mag and a 33rnd mag and it's still in the box

    he then wrote back and said he will take the gun and all the xtras plus 200$, then i said how about 100$ he said deal,, we met up and he looked it over then we shook hands and parted ways, i even said here's your new SUB2000

    i left town for a few days and when i got back i got these messages, note that he waited 24 hours before even emailing me?

    this is john you con me with the kel-tec you were to bring a ruger mini 14 ss with bypod . would like to make it straight the gun you gave me is only worth about 400.00.if you would like to straighten this out .lets get toghter agin to trade back or bring the right gun or about four hunderd more dollars differance.john

    because you choose not to respond to my e-mail the rife has been turned over to the atf as stolen by fraud and they will contact you by tracing your e-mail. john


    and to top it all off when i got home and gave the M1 a closer inspection i noticed that the barrel is shot, not even any rifling left and all pitted

    ive wrote him back twice asking to trade back but gotten no answer
     
  9. elcid11

    elcid11 Beaverton New Member

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    Sounds like you did nothing wrong.

    I don't know, this does seem more like a civil matter than a criminal matter, just from the totality of the circumstances.

    I think trading back may be a good option if the M1 is in that bad of shape.
     
  10. petagunner

    petagunner sourthern oregon New Member

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    Any advice you get on here is worth just what you paid for it....Nothing.

    I'd take $100 and go talk to a lawyer as this will be nothing but a civil matter anyways.
     
  11. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    Not worth anything??

    Seems someone mentioned it being civil from the start....hmmm wonder who that could have been?
     
  12. wanted

    wanted eugene New Member

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    well i just called the guy and he wont give me back my gun and money,, so im just gonna chaulk it up as i got screwed, im going down today and buying a keychain bore light,,
     
  13. Scott

    Scott Battle Ground Well-Known Member

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    I would contact him and tell him lets trade back. I highly doubt he gave the rifle to the ATF because he would have nothing now and they can not say it was stolen as he traded face to face and accepted it. It's not like it is a diamond or something. It sorta sounds like he had this planned. I would keep all the emails just in case and let him know that you have them. Keep this in mind always write a bill of sale and identify the items so there is no confusion. Good luck.

    Scott
     
  14. Unka-Boo

    Unka-Boo Milwaukie Active Member

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    Keep a couple of white business cards in your wallet. They work great....

    ALWAYS do deals in the daylight and take the time to inspect THOROUGHLY.

    Sorry it didn't work out for you, but it sounds like if you took a little more time to inspect the gun you wouldn't be in the predicament you are in.
     
  15. wichaka

    wichaka Wa State Well-Known Member

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    The ATF isn't going to take this on, as long as the laws were followed. It sounds like they were, so chalk it up to experience, learn from it and move on.

    Sorry to hear about the deal.

    This thread has run its course.
     
  16. krawl

    krawl Oregon Member

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    My $0.02-

    I probably would have tried to clear up the confusion before the deal ever happened- your own post admits the guy was confused. Sounds like a non-gun guy who was hoping for a trade to make some cash on
     
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