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Firearm Shipping

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by dustinm, Jan 16, 2012.

  1. dustinm

    dustinm The BEAVER State Member

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    A friend of mine drove from Nevada to Oregon on vacation dropped off two guns for me to work on and I just recently completed them. Do I have to ship them to a FFL in Nevada even though they are technically his guns, and they are crossing State Lines?
     
  2. pinecenega

    pinecenega oregon coast New Member

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    Have him buy the postage. It would be as if he were shipping his own guns to himself.
     
  3. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    TERRIBLE bubblegumING ADVICE!!!! WOW. And while you're giving advice would you like to be the one going to jail and becoming bubba's girlfriend? I mean it could be just as if he's actually there...


    1) are you a licensed FFL? If yes I BELIEVE you'd be OK as guns may be returned to an owner after repair. If not then do it right and ship it to an FFL.
     
  4. dustinm

    dustinm The BEAVER State Member

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    I am not an FFL, just did some cosmetic work on the guns.
     
  5. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    iamme can you back that up? I dont have the correct answer on this so I have stayed out of it so far. I dont have proof one way or the other so I would sure like to see some.

    FFL is for the TRANSFER of ownership. The guns are owned by the receiving party so there is no transfer of ownership. It is also 100% legal to ship guns to yourself, ATF Online - Firearms - Frequently Asked Questions - Unlicensed Persons #9. I can not find the link right now but it is also 100% legal for an FFL to return ship a firearm to the owner, again there is no transfer of ownership.

    So based on those 2 pieces of information I would say you would be legal to ship them back to the actual owner (since you are not transferring ownership) of the firearms. Had the owner been at house and packed the guns for shipping back to himself that would be 100% legal so I am not sure why it would be illegal for you do package them for him. I have not seen a law that talks about this so I dont have proof for or against it.


    ETA: So a few more thoughts on this. It is my opinion (so take it for what it is worth) that you can legally ship them back to him. My first thought was that maybe you can just meet your friend half way and give them back to him. From the link above we KNOW for a fact that it is illegal to transfer any gun out of state between private parties. So since these guns legally belong to your friend and are just on "loan" to you (also legal from the link) it would be legal for you to take them back to him or for him to get them without having to go through and FFL. Since the same would be true for shipping them an FFL should not be required.
     
  6. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    Try to clear it up, with the FAQ as I take it:

    Yes. A person may ship a firearm to himself or herself in care of another person in the State where he or she intends to hunt or engage in any other lawful activity. The package should be addressed to the owner. Persons other than the owner should not open the package and take possession of the firearm.

    Bold added by me. Since someone other than the owner already has possesion, it sure seems to me to violate this. Again I may be wrong, but simply saying to lie to hope to avoid a federal offense is not a good idea.
     
  7. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    I see your point, and it makes sense. I am not sure where you see a violation already. The owner dropped them off with the OP in person which is legal.

    When shipping a gun to yourself you are the only one allowed to take initial possession. The problem I see is once the owner opens the package he can legally let his friend borrow it....... In this case the guns are still owned by the person they are being returned to. So if the owner came to where the guns are and wanted to ship them home it would be directly to himself not in care of another person.

    I would tell the OP to call the ATF but even there depending on who you get will depend on the answer cause they dont have a clue most of the time either.
     
  8. iamme

    iamme Lane County Well-Known Member

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    ATF call is best bet.

    My point also stems from this: when a gun is shipped out of state the gun is logged in and out. There's still a track record of it. ATF allowing guns to leave and re-enter the state with no tracking- well yeah just don't see that happening.

    Another thing worth noting in the FAQ, since we now laws/etc written poorly- It says a person may mail the gun out of state to themselves in care of another person, it honestly doesn't say they may ship it back to themselves... I really don't feel like digging through the USC to see exactly what law says on shipping, but just something to note from the FAQ.
     
  9. mudflatmike

    mudflatmike Lake Stevens, Wa. Active Member

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    One thing I found over the years, every ATF agent you ask will probably have a different answer. The laws they enforce are so ambiguous that no one (agents, US attorney nor Federal Judge) agrees on what is a violation! Good luck.
     
  10. ZigZagZeke

    ZigZagZeke Eugene Silver Supporter Silver Supporter 2015 Volunteer

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    I ship firearms via UPS back and forth to my preferred gunsmith in another state. There's no transfer of ownership, so there's no problem.
     
  11. EMP9596

    EMP9596 Two Trees West of Camas, WA. Active Member

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    It is legal to ship round trip to a properly ATF licensed gunsmith. Upon reciept he must enter the firearm in his Bound Book with the required information. Upon returning the firearm to the owner he then logs the firearm out as returned to the owner. (Paper records for ATF)

    I do ship and recieve a firearm now and then as a FFL-003.

    It is my understanding (ATF Seattle info) to ship a firearm to ones self that the 'owner" must be the physical shipper, and the 'owner' must be the physical reciever.
    The package can be held by a second party (hunting lodge or ?) but can not be opened by anyone except the shipper who must be the legal owner and shipper).

    I am not giving advice here it just my way.
     
  12. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Not that the ATF makes sense but it is legal for the OP to drive them (ship them) to the owner so what makes it illegal for a 3rd party to drive it to the owner? If it HAD to go though an FFL then IF the OP drove them to the owner they would have to go to a local FFL for transfer and we know that is not the case.
     
  13. EMP9596

    EMP9596 Two Trees West of Camas, WA. Active Member

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    The simple way to me would for the OP's friend to retrieve them in person.
    Involving a third party in transport would could turn interesting or maybe not, if they were stopped by law inforcement and the firearms became an issue. The OP could ship them to the owner's FFL.

    I really do not have an answer. The OP should maybe call PDX and Seattle ATF and see if he gets the same answer from both.
     
  14. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    My comment about a 3rd party was using a shipping company.

    My whole point is that an FFL is needed for transfer. There is no transfer taking place here only transport to the owner. IF an FFL was required then the owner would need to do an FFL transfer either in OR (if long guns) or in NV to even get them back.
     
  15. EMP9596

    EMP9596 Two Trees West of Camas, WA. Active Member

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    The OP should be able to ship direct to a Nevada FFL, if his friend finds an FFL his end that will take shipment from a non-FFL.
    If it is a long gun he can get the correct box from UPS and shipping instructions.
     
  16. Browning55

    Browning55 Seattle-Everett Area Active Member

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    Safest and cleanest way seems to be -- if owner can bring it, owner can pick it up.