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Firearm Laws - OR Concealed Carry Permit, legal question

Discussion in 'General Firearm Discussion' started by skandranon, Mar 15, 2011.

  1. skandranon

    skandranon Portland, Oregon Member

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    :huh: Ok guys I have a question I am having a hard time finding the answer to. If anyone can help and has any info (preferably with links) that would be great!

    Background info: I am new to firearms in general. I never had anyone to teach me about them and I am learning everything as I go. I am in my early 30s and starting from the point of knowing nothing.

    I took a concealed handgun safety class today at the Multnomah county sheriff office. During the class he said that anyone who has ever been convicted of a offence involving any schedule one substance, can not get a permit. I should have asked him my question, but I thought I could find the info on google. I have not found a answer yet. When I was 18 I was convicted of misdemeanor possession of marijuana. Marijuana is a schedule one substance.

    My question is, will this keep my CHP from being approved? Also more importantly does this bar me from legally owning a firearm? I know you can not if you are a felon, but in my case this was a misdemeanor that happened when I was more or less a kid well over a decade ago. I never got it expunged, and it does not even show up on most background checks.

    I find it very hard to believe that this could legally prevent me from owning a firearm. If anyone can help with any info that would be great! Thank you so much in advance!
     
  2. CapnCurry

    CapnCurry Portland, OR New Member

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    Insert standard disclaimers here (I am not a lawyer, nor an expert; your mileage may vary; results not typical; consult a physician before beginning this or any other exercise program...... :) )

    ORS 166.291 has some relevant information (check it out at http://www.leg.state.or.us/ors/166.html ).

    I think the relevant bit is:

    (1) The sheriff of a county, upon a person’s application for an Oregon concealed handgun license, upon receipt of the appropriate fees and after compliance with the procedures set out in this section, shall issue the person a concealed handgun license if the person:
    <snip>
    L) Has not been convicted of an offense involving controlled substances or participated in a court-supervised drug diversion program, except this disability does not operate to exclude a person if:
    (A) The person has been convicted only once of violating ORS 475.864 (3) and has not completed a court-supervised drug diversion program under ORS 135.907; or

    My non-lawyer, un-educated-in-the-legal-system-eyes take that as a "you get one chance to learn not to do that anymore". Hope that fits your situation. :)
     
  3. madcratebuilder

    madcratebuilder Ardenwald, OR Well-Known Member

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    A friend had similar deal, he had his record expunged. I cost a few hundred bucks in lawyer fees but he now has his CC permit.
     
  4. skandranon

    skandranon Portland, Oregon Member

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    Does you friend live in Multnomah county? Did he get turned down before getting his record expunged? Was it all over a misdemeanor possession charge?

    Thinking about just going to a gun store and getting the background check. If I pass that I should pass the CC right?
     
  5. deen_ad

    deen_ad Vancouver, WA Well-Known Member

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    There was someone here that did that in kind of the same situation, got the gun, got his license, then the BATF come to his door and told him he was banned from owning a weapon and took it. He was out the gun, the cost of the CWP and other assorted things. Maybe he'll chime in here?
     
  6. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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    Beat way is you need to talk to court counselor about your case.

    Just tell them if your record is still on file. If so, request expunge record not sealed. It may take little less than a year.

    Also was it juvenile court or treated as adult? If adult, may need lawyer.

    Don't try to purchase or apply for license before taking care of this. It will create more problems. And don't take Internet advice seriously, go head to the court.

    Good luck.
     
  7. hm1ing

    hm1ing 97051 Member

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    Ok, maybe this is the straight forward way: Apply for the permit and if they deny you or they tell you you can if... then you will know for sure and let us all know without guessing.
     
  8. skandranon

    skandranon Portland, Oregon Member

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    I went down to the sheriff's office today. They said that as long as it was only the one, I am fine. Same as the first person to reply said. I think I am just gonna apply, worst they can do is say no. Thanks for the replys, will let you all know the outcome in a month or two when I find out.
     
  9. Hawaiian

    Hawaiian Tigard Oregon Well-Known Member

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    If it was a decade ago, you are safe with only one conviction for a small amount of pot. If you add a second conviction for that or a DUI, you are then banned for life. As I understand the statute.
     
  10. skandranon

    skandranon Portland, Oregon Member

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    I think you are right from what I have learned. I think that is messed up. Seen many many angry drunks, never met a angry stoner.

    I dont DWI so I have no worries there. I am fairly sure I will be approved after talking with you guys and the sheriffs office.
     
  11. Skang

    Skang WA Well-Known Member

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    If you think it's going to be okay then try it.

    If you check "NO" that means you lied to them and could face charge. You can check "YES" and explain what happened. Then why even waste money and time, if you are going to check "YES" and get denied.

    Go to court and see the court counselor to get your record expunged. Just need to fill out paper and wait. (Don't remember if there was a fee)
     
  12. elsullo

    elsullo Portland Oregon New Member

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    You don't necessarily need an attorney for an expungement. If you know your legal offense name and legal statute number violation and conviction and its dates you can do it yourself (hopefully you kept your arrest and court records?) Go to the County Clerk's office and ask if they have a flyer of their proceedure and fees for a simple expungement---most counties do. Then go to a "professional" size office supply store that sells standard legal forms. These forms are numbered, and the County Clerk will tell you what numbered standard form they require. Just fill out the standard form and take it and the required fee to the County Clerk; it does not even need to be typed. In a few weeks you will get a letter from the County District Attorney's office with their decision. I'd give that a couple of weeks to settle into the State records, and then apply for the CCL......................elsullo
     
  13. NoOne

    NoOne Puget Sound Active Member

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    Get it expunged. Once expunged, you can say it didn't happen.
     
  14. torrejon224

    torrejon224 Springfield, OR Member

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    As far as owning a gun is concerned it depends on what the max sentence could have been for the offense. If a judge could have sentenced you to over a year depending on the states guidelines at that time then your screwed. Doesn't matter if a felony or misdemeanor. I have a ATF 4473 right in front of me as I have an FFl and Question #11c asks "Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony or any other crime for which the judge could imprision you for more than one year even if you received a shorter sentence including probation?" Since the offense took place a long time ago the best thing would be to contact the DAs office where it happened and ask them. Good luck!
     
  15. Pauly

    Pauly N. Portland Active Member

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    4 years after a misdemeanor conviction, you are once again eligible.
    Oregon is a SHALL ISSUE state, but the Multnomah county sheriff arbitrarily attempts to deny many people contrary to Oregon's laws.

    If you get a denial letter, there will be citations of the text of the laws (ORS & OAR).
    If you're not a fellon, have never had a restraining order against you, not a sex offender, have never been court committed to a psych unit & have never displayed a PATTERN of violence or threats of violence (meaning more than one time) The Sheriff is required by Oregon law to issue you your permit.

    If he fails to do so, follow the instructions in the denial letter & sue the sheriff.
    They must prove their reasons for their denial.
    You have the right to face your accuser, so if they say you threatened someone, they have to bring them to the hearing, otherwise you can demand that not be considered.

    Filing suite against the Sheriff will only cost you $185.00 & when you win, you can demand they pay your court filing fees.

    So read the OAR's & ORS's cited in the denial letter & stand up for your rights if you're arbitrarily denied.
    Remember...
    The Multnomah county Sheriff is elected by the left wing liberals of Portland, so will often act like his constituents would like him to..
    But he must follow the laws of the state none the less.
    That's the beauty of a "SHALL ISSUE" state.
    Fight it if you're denied.
    It takes a couple months, but if you fit the criteria, the judge will reluctantly order he issue your permit.

    The hardest part for a layman is writing the court order.
    Go to the law library in the courthouse.
    The Law Librarian is very helpful & will help you find examples of court orders.
    Use the format that seems most apropriate, write it up & submit it to the judge's office for his or her signature. If something is out of order, they'll tell you.
    Then you fix it & bring it back.
    When the judge signs it, bring it to the county attorney that you just beat & he'll forward it to the Sheriff, then they'll issue your CHL.
     
  16. skandranon

    skandranon Portland, Oregon Member

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    I have my apt for fingerprinting this week. Should know in the next 50 days or so. If I get denied I will be doing as you suggest. Thanks for the info! :)
     
  17. pokerace

    pokerace Newberg Well-Known Member

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  18. Kimber Custom

    Kimber Custom Vancouver, WA Bronze Vendor Bronze Vendor

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    Just as CapnCurry said in post 2

    166.291 Issuance of concealed handgun license; application; fees; liability. (1) The sheriff of a county, upon a person&#8217;s application for an Oregon concealed handgun license, upon receipt of the appropriate fees and after compliance with the procedures set out in this section, shall issue the person a concealed handgun license if the person:

    (L) Has not been convicted of an offense involving controlled substances or participated in a court-supervised drug diversion program, except this disability does not operate to exclude a person if:
    (A) The person has been convicted only once of violating ORS 475.864 (3) and has not completed a court-supervised drug diversion program under ORS 135.907; or
    (B) The person has completed a court-supervised drug diversion program under ORS 135.907 and has not been convicted of violating ORS 475.864 (3);
     
  19. Ed Crabb

    Ed Crabb Keizer Oregon New Member

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    Well you all have interesting views on the subject, but I just went through this, and I LOST! In 2008 I had a DUII , I took a prescribed Vicodin at 3:00AM went back to bed, got up at seven thirty and drove to work. OSP pulled me over just about a mile from my place of employment. I was booked drilled and grilled by their DRE Drug Recognition Expert ( What an bubblegum Hat), he could not prove or disprove I was under the influence of anything, but made the recommendation to the Watch Commander to file DUII Driving Under the Influence of Intoxicants, a difference between DUI and DUII. DUI is Alcohol related which by the was if you get busted for that go through Diversion, and it is a once in a life time event, you keep your nose clean you get you CHL. I went to court plead guilty as recommended by my lawyer and the circuit court Judge, who offered me diversion in trade for pleading guilty. I had to complete the one year drug and alcohol rehab classes at my own expense $76.00 a night five nights a week, do a Victim's Impact Panel where you get to sit in front of people so badly mangled by a drug or wasted driver they have blow into a straw to move their wheelchair, they tell you about what was taken from them. Turns out the Nurse that ran the presentation was a friend of mine at work, and there I was front and center, ashamed you could say so.

    I completed my course and the DA recommend to the 3rd Judicial Circuit Court in Marion County that my citation be dismissed, the Judge agreed and made it so. Roll forward 8 years to today, I have had three speeding tickets in that 8 years and that's it, I haven't broken one law, in fact I have assisted the cops more than once in apprehending drug dealers, B&E artists, an Arsonist, you get the picture Mr. Neighborhood watch. I am as clean as a new born baby. So I find out that my complex has Mexican Mafia moving in, and we have a cartel member that drops of items on a regular basis. I have managed to get a few of them locked up, but I have been made aware that I may wake up dead. SO I am totally disabled now on SSD, and I cant fight like I used to 30 years ago, My knees are shot and I have degenerative arthritis in my spine, and both arms. So I decided to take the safety class which I have more background military training than the instructor, but I paid my $80.00 and took the course, downloaded the application and right off the bat I see that the application on page two box number six is maybe going to drive a stake through my heart.

    It says:
    Except as provided in ORS 166.291(1)(L), I have NOT been convicted of an offense involving controlled substances or completed a court supervised drug diversion program. Note: ORS 166.291(1)(L) provides that its terms do not apply to you: if you have been convicted only once of a marijuana possession offense constituting a misdemeanor or violation under the law of the jurisdiction of the offense; or if you have only once completed a drug diversion program for a marijuana possession offense that constituted a misdemeanor or violation under the law of the jurisdiction of the offense; but not both. If you have been convicted of a marijuana possession offense constituting a misdemeanor or violation, or participated in a drug diversion program for such a charge, and this is the only controlled substance conviction or diversion, then initialing this box would not be unlawful. If you have another controlled substance conviction or have participated in another supervised drug diversion program, then initialing this box would be unlawful.

    Well I knew my record showed a DUII which by the way a DUI and a DUII can no longer be expunged or "Set Aside" They stay forever. But I new it was dismissed. So then I thought well how would that related to the Diversion? I read the following sentence:

    "If you have been convicted of a marijuana possession offense constituting a misdemeanor or violation, or participated in a drug diversion program for such a charge, and this is the only controlled substance conviction or diversion, then initialing this box would not be unlawful."

    With the emphasis on this part of the last piece: or participated in a drug diversion program for such a charge, and this is the only controlled substance conviction or diversion,"

    SO I called the Marion County Sheriffs Office and explained my dilemma and actually read the ORS 166.291 Section (L)(a) (b), which should clear me I thought, they agreed. So I finished the application and went to make an appointment to turn in my append pay my $65.00 get printed, have my photo taken, and wait. But that question kept nagging at me, so I called again and asked to speak to the CHL division, a sworn officer if possible. I got a clerk that pushed the paperwork, turns out Marion County lets ordinary people like you and I have BPST numbers which allow them to log in to every criminal database known to man and enter your information, once there it stays there even if you didn't do anything. I have worked for three other law enforcement agencies and held a top secret security clearance, I know the proper protocol, letting civilians reach into my history or create new history is not right, but I digress.

    So I read the statutes all of them , there are actually several you have to make it through to be cleared for the one above or below and be considered able to apply. She told me no problem you are good to go. So I made my appointment, I went in we went over the application, I was interviewed by one of the CHL staff, and so I asked again is this a problem, nope you have interpreted the statutes correctly. So I was told I should have my CHL (Concealed Handgun License) in two weeks but it could take up to 45 days. At 30 days and not a peep for the SO, I called to see what the status was? I was informed that it had not been touched, I turned it in on Nov. 20th and its now 30 days later, you said and I read a statute that the Sherriff has to make a decision in 45 days or less or I get a Judicial Review? She says oh don't worry call NAME LEFT BLANK AS Legal action is pending, tomorrow, I say ok, and I do this person is at lunch call back at 1:30 I do, she says oh I am almost finished I am just waiting for the OSP arrest report for your DUII, can you tell me about it, I may be able to clear you now and send your license tomorrow, what the heck I have memorized it all by now so I get to the point f telling her it was for Vicodin and she goes into orbit, You lied on your application, yo are a liar and I am killing this license right now and going to the sheriff to see about a bench warrant for your arrest for lying on the application, have a good day....dial tone. WOW!! I sat back and went over everything that just happened... what the hell was that? So I fire off an E-Mail to complain about the whole thing and the ranting and raving woman to the Staff Commander, who E-mail's me back it is being investigated and she or the supervisor would call back, which I did get a call from the supervisor who told me he was sorry on behalf of the Marion County SO, but I would be denied because I had a diversion. I tell him I spoke to your people four times and was told go for it, he says well I feel really bad but if you don't appeal this I'll send you a refund for half your application fee, I was so pissed I said whatever and hung up. Low and behold about three days latter 55 days from the day this mess all started I got a letter form the Sheriff; Long story short the sheriff denys my CHL telling me because I was convicted for DUII Vicodin. Now the Vicodin was not in any of the court documents it just stated a schedule II narcotic ... so I knew who told him that, and what the hell was wrong with him, I have the entire court case on file and digitalized it clearly says DISSMISSED CITATION NO CONVICTION! SO I think about it and research it more I tried to get an appointment with a Representative from my district no dice, SO I call the Law Library and they send me what I feel is the golden key. So I go through creating a Petition to ask the 3rd Judicial Circuit Court Pro-se (Representing myself) to review the case, and take it in and pay$252.00 to file it. I get a court date and go. The County Counsel which is a set of attorneys that every county in Oregon has to clean up messes made by management shows up, and he has a woman with him I don't know. We sit down at the bench I am pulling my 180 page petition and he turns to me and drops 20 pounds of paper work on me and say sorry I didn't get this done until last night, I will be entering these into evidence against you. I say what the hell is wrong with you, I have about 4 minutes before the judge walks through that door and you are just now dropping this on me? Yep sorry. Turns out the woman is little miss can't be wrong, the ranting raving wild woman. He lays out the whole thing he says he the diversion is the reason and I interpreted the statues incorrectly and I am at fault. He submits his pounds of crap which as it turns out was a cobbled together mess of my petition and some docs from my DUII case, and a hand written check list which is a joke that Marion County uses to determine if you get a license or not. When its my turn I want to beat him over the head with his paper work, but years of answering to commanders managers and general idiots that knew much less about my job then I did told me to refrain from a court room brawl. I made my case explaining in great detail how I came to the conclusion I did on the statutes and the fact I was told several times by MCSO Staff that I was right, and the main fault was the Sherriff was to stupid to spell out that it was the diversion he listed a conviction for DUII, so how was I wrong? If I can not trust the Sheriffs office to give me vital legal advice, and I can not talk to a legislator, and I can not afford an attorney as I am on a fixed income, just how is I am wrong and County Counsel is wright your honor. I asked his forgiveness for my abrupt attitude, I explained I am very upset at being told one thing all along and only after you have half of my rent and all of my grocery money you tell me I am wrong. He explained that he initially was going to allow me the license but that when counsel delivered his case the morning of the hearing he felt that he needed to look at the statues closer, and he said if it were a Marijuana case, I would be right but since it wasn't I could not use the reference. I asked him, can you tell me where the statue about being exempt for diversion for Vicodin is? He smiled and said your persistent, no there isn't one. SO I am being Button hold for a diversion I did to keep my house, my family feed keep my job, and all of the things a good husband and father would do, I am not allowed to concealed a weapon to protect myself ever again in Oregon is that hat you are saying? He explained that if he could he would allow me the CHL but the law as it is jut does not have an allowance. HE applauded me for my diligence and said I did the best job of preparing for this he has ever seen it just does not match with the current law.

    So check with an attorney before you do anything else.