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Firearm Gift in Oregon

Discussion in 'Legal & Political Archive' started by Smitty79, May 31, 2013.

  1. Smitty79

    Smitty79 Tigard Member

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    When I buy guns, I have to sign the form saying they are for me. But what if I wanted to buy something for my adult son? If I gave him one of "family" rifles, I could just give it to him. But if I am buying something specifically for him, I could see it getting "dicey". What's the rule? How do I do it without going to jail?
     
  2. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    You would never do anything like that, the ATF may frown upon that action. (Screw them):paranoid:

    Look, I got my first gun as a gift. And I got my first handgun as a gift, before I was 21. As long as your son is not a prohibited person, and everything is on the up and up, I say go for it. I am 6'8" and years ago bought my 7 year old son a youth rifle. I marked the box that I was buying said gun for myself, when obviously I was not...Not many full grown adults buy youth rifles for themselves, and I sure as hell had no intention of keeping that rifle, it'll go with him.

    I know, your son is an adult, but like I said, as long as everything is on the up and up, I wouldn't worry about it...I'm sure that there is something wrong with it though, if rule of law were followed.
     
  3. dallen1x

    dallen1x Wil_Val, OR Active Member

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  4. Mark W.

    Mark W. Silverton, OR Bronze Supporter Bronze Supporter

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    Actually I have bought my adult son a firearm and it is not a straw purchase. You are buying it for yourself and then giving it as a gift. All perfectly OKDOKY with ATF.
     
  5. Skier

    Skier Beaverton/Washington County Active Member

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    What if I got my dad a gift, but my parents moved to WA a few years back and I still live in OR... Need an FLL to give dad a gift across state lines?
     
  6. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    No problem, the problem come when you purchase a weapon (long gun or handgun) with HIS money, For HIM, and you sign the firearms paperwork that you purchased the weapon for yourself.

    I took my wife into a gun store, told the FFL I want to buy her a present, specifically a High Standard Victor if available. He had a High Standard Trophy, I bought it, I paid for it, I signed the paperwork, he handed the cased gun to me, I gave it to my wife as we walked out the door. Someone could argue it was "our" family money (it wasn't, it was MY personal funds) but it was still a gift.

    Why did I do it that way, rather than let my wife pick out the pistol for herself (she did approve of the pistol)? Because I have a CPL (no wait, no two 80 mile trips to the gun store) and she does not have a CPL. The gun is hers, no question. I purchased it, no question. It was a gift from me to her, no law broken.
     
  7. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    May I show by another example. I have owned a CZ52 for years. I shoot it occasionally, and it is fun to shoot, but I carry a CZ85. I have many other pistols, but the CZ52 has some very hot performance characteristics... >7.62X25mm..125 grain hp at 1775 fpm? It is a hot cartridge.

    Over Memorial day weekend I gave that CZ52 to one of our 5 (adult) daughters to carry when she is hunting, hiking, picking mushrooms etc. Same thing as the above with my wife. Just the timing was different. I purchased the weapon for myself, then gave it to whomever I had reason to believe was not a prohibited person, that resided in the same state I do...No?

    If I was to gift a pistol to our daughter that lives in TX, that would be different, and that gift would require the services of an FFL in TX.
     
  8. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    You are NOT signing a form that says it is for you. You are signing a form which asks "Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form?" so as long as you can answer yes the it is legal.

    Here is the 4473, http://www.atf.gov/files/forms/download/atf-f-4473-1.pdf

    Right from the form,

    Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift for a third party. ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANS- FEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present, Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (n), or (x). Please note: EXCEPTION: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.
     
  9. Emerald

    Emerald USA Member

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    Maybe a little off topic, so I can post this as a separate thread if the moderators need me to.

    But here's my question: In my divorce from my ex, we split the firearm collection (substantial). Nearly all of them were purchased in his name with our joint money (honestly, MY money). Is there an FFL transfer requirement from him to me?
     
  10. speeddemon94

    speeddemon94 The Rogue Well-Known Member

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    nope
     
  11. Emerald

    Emerald USA Member

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    Thank you, speeddemon. Can you (or someone) give me a cite that will put my mind at ease on that point. I mean, I'm sure you're right and all, but....

    Emerald
     
  12. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    If you live in ID, OR, MT, NV,WA, WY (and a lot of other states, exception would be California and NY where they require all transactions to go through a licensed dealer)..it would be like any other FTF transaction. As long as the parties live in the same state, and do not know the other person is a prohibited person, there is no requirement to use an FFL.

    It is difficult to cite a "law" when 1: you show yourself living in the "USA" and these kind of things are state specific. and 2: laws are written to prohibit things from happening, not to allow them. As there is no law that prohibits FTF transactions in the above states, Face to face transactions are legal.

    If you live in California you might want to check with a lawyer.
     
  13. Nwcid

    Nwcid Yakima and N of Spokane Well-Known Member

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    Laws are written to say what you can not do. There is no law that says you can not do that so it it legal. This is assuming you are in a state that does not have registration and they are title 1 firearms.

    If you live in a place with registration or you are talking about title 2 firearms that is different. With those you will have to follow your state laws or Federal laws.
     
  14. gimpyhunter

    gimpyhunter K-Falls Oregon Member

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    If you are in CA, forget the attorney. You cannot distribute any weapon to anyone without going through the background check. Not your mother, sister or son.

    I believe it was 1990 in CA when any gun you bought/acquired must be registered. Anything older, can be unregistered until it changes hands with anyone.

    If you die with a collection in your name, the survivors will have to be background checked. A friend went to prison in CA for trying to sell his deceased dads rifles "underground."
     
  15. Trlsmn

    Trlsmn In Utero (Portland) Well-Known Member

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    You got half the collection, great, you must have had a Hi-Power'd attorney?
     
  16. hermannr

    hermannr Okanogan Highlands Well-Known Member

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    There is a problem trying to quote a law that does not exist. The Federal Law concerns transfers that effect INTERSTATE commerce (between two or more distinct states) and most restriction in Federal Law concern "licensed" dealers.

    In OR, WA, ID, NV, WY MT ...etc... restriction are also between two different states. If you purchase a gun in one state, and you live in another.

    As long as you live in the state the transaction (divorce judgment) took place, there is no registration (except in places like California and NY) so your idea that they were "registered" to your X, is in error, and as long as you are not a "prohibited person" (Felon) you can have the guns, sell them, keep them, whatever, no questions.

    Remember, in the US, "That which is not prohibited is permitted" There is no federal law that prohibits said transfer of ownership, and, again, unless you live in CA (I am assuming you live in the NW) there is no state law prohibiting said transfer.
     
  17. closingresponse

    closingresponse Portland New Member

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    You can transfer to immediate family members in CA without paperwork. Father/mother to son/daughter, vice versa. No transfer to uncles, aunts, grandparents, cousins, etc. They suggest you fill out some DOJ form but it's not required.

    I bought a pistol from my wifes uncle when I lived in CA. Had to use an FFL, but if it was her dad, he could have just gave it to her, and I could have used it etc.

    If it's a handgun the recipient is suppose to have a CA 'handgun safety card' or whatever they call it and not be a prohibited person for it to be a legal intrafamily transfer without paperwork.

    I had a buddy in CA whose dad was getting very close to dying. Before dying he gave all of his firearms to his son. This way it was legal and they never had to he registered or would become wrapped up in state BS when he passed.


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    Edited for spelling.